A Note on Respectful Dialogue
The Synagogue Without Walls is an experiment of sorts. Many people have written me and told me that I am out of my mind to believe that people can approach any religious question with civility and reason. There are obviously times when people will strongly disagree with one another. This site has members that come from a wide range of beliefs. There are Orthodox Jews, Messianic types, Karaites, etc. My intent was to create a place where anyone who believes in the One God of Israel and seeks to live according to the principles of the Hebrew Bible could come together to dialogue respectfully and learn from one another. I still believe that this is possible, but only if certain rules are in place. I try not to sensor and so there are times when a single person with a certain view comes in and expresses their view. The views of any individual on this site does not necessarily represent my view or of any other Synagogue Without Walls member. If truth is ever to prevail, we must put the tough questions out on the table and discuss them. From time to time I have to send people back to the original vision of a process I have called “Dialogue”. I am doing this again. I would urge every member of this site to read closely what I have written. I wrote it primarily for those who began the journey from Fundamental Christianity and are learning to live a Torah based life, but it is helpful for all who seek to study and learn together. It is easy to throw our hands up, search the world for a few people who believe like us and settle in. I challenge all of you to find in any synagogue or in any church a group that agrees on all points. My vision is much bigger. I want to stick with this. I will be patient and persistent in my attempts to bring a message of Biblical Faith to the entire world. This does not mean that I propose that everyone is right “in their own way”. Simply put, there are plenty of people that are flat out wrong. I put the Bible as the measuring rod for truth. Who is with me?
Dialogue
Members of this site will be able to interact with others in a healthy and yet forsaken art – the ancient art of Dialogue! Many religious institutions shy away from questions. Not so at Roots of Faith. I believe that most people have legitimate questions as well as an earnest desire to find real answers. I also believe that collectively we can learn if we enter into respectful dialogue with others.
Dialogue is something that took place in the formative years of Christianity in the synagogue every Sabbath, but rarely takes place within the walls of religious institutions today. See how it is used in the following passages for example. (Acts 17:2, 17; 18:4, 19; 19:8, 9; 20:7, 9; 24:5). In each of these passages we have forms of the Greek word dialogomai. The word is defined as:
1. of a reasoned discussion – discuss, discourse with, conduct a discussion 2. of disputation – contend, argue, dispute 3. of speaking with someone in order to convince, address, speak, reason with.
I want people to carefully and respectfully consider the ideas of others. Trying to understand where a person is coming from without being judgmental is very hard for most of us. Often we attempt to force ideas, coerce and persuade others rather than provide an open forum to express differing views and to allow the expression of differing views in order to gain mutual learning by effective communications.
I see this site as an excellent opportunity to exchange ideas and so I encourage you to consider joining this site. If however you are one that already has all the answers, or has an agenda to convert everyone to a particular point of view, or are seeking to condemn or otherwise ridicule anyone for not defining things according to your pre-determined view (s), then this site is not for you.
I recognize through personal experience that it is very difficult to have civil conversations about differing Biblical beliefs. The scars of ghostly inquisitions from the past and the present fear of being labeled a heretic often drive people to search for truth in solitude.
I personally believe that the faith of many has been stunted by not providing people with a forum to ask questions. Great spiritual enlightenment is always birthed by an irresistible desire to search for truth and the boldness to sell all for that elusive pearl of great price. Many have lost family and friends – and in some cases their life as a result of seeking after truth and discovering that they had been lied to. The prophet Jeremiah speaks about a time when Gentiles will go unto God from the ends of earth, lamenting that their fathers have inherited lies, vanity and things wherein there is no profit (Jeremiah 16:19).
May we all be like those Bereans of old, declared to be more noble than the Thessalonians because they did two things: (1) received the word with all readiness of mind and (2) they searched the Scriptures daily to see if those things were true. (Acts 17:11)
I am reminded of a wonderful saying found in the Sayings of the Fathers (Mishna Avoth 2:6) that says, “The timid student does not learn and the stern teacher does not educate.”
I really believe this to be true. I, like all of you have some firmly held convictions. Many of us have MANY such convictions. I for one am learning to listen and learn from those who have a differing opinion than I. Some of the most valuable learning for me has been gained from actively listening to a view with which I had not been familiar, but that was presented with evidence and tact.
So if you have honest questions about faith related issues and are open to consider the views of others, to constructively and respectfully challenge long established doctrines and dogmas, all the while allowing yourself to be vulnerable and teachable then this site is probably for you. I have to believe that most people try to act with integrity based upon what they see and know at any given time.
I want to encourage open advocacy and authentic inquiry on this site. In order for this to work, and for you to remain on this list you must understand and utilize both.
Open advocacy can be defined as “stating a position that permits others to state a different position.” Examples of using open advocacy include prefacing a statement in one of the following ways:
This is the way I see it…
This is what I think (or believe) and why…
I suggest…
Let’s try….
Have you considered this in your current understanding?
I have always understood that to mean this…..
From what I have studied, this was understood in this way by the ancients….
Examples of what open advocacy is NOT are as follows:
This is how it is……
You have to believe this……
It’s obvious…..
There’s no way…..
Open advocacy must be balanced by authentic inquiry. This can be defined as “asking questions to gain a better understanding or to deepen understanding.” Examples include language such as:
What do you see?
Why do we believe this?
What is the basis for this doctrine?
How do you understand this passage?
Help me understand why you believe that…
What leads you to that conclusion?
Could you give me an example or perhaps say more?
What do you mean when you say…….?
What might we be missing when we look at things in this way?
So you see, this method of dialogue could be very instructive. I am of the opinion that we must look to the book to find the answers to our questions. The Second Temple period gave us a rich body of learning that includes;
The Hebrew Bible – the Bible that Jesus and his earliest followers used (now called the Old Testament),
The New Testament or Christian Scriptures, which tell us much about the way that various people and groups interpreted their Bible (the Hebrew Bible or Old Testament)
Other Ancient religious texts (gnostic gospels, Apocrypha, etc)
We also have some incredible learning in Jewish literature (Talmud, Mishna, etc),
Not to mention the corpus of texts known to the modern world as the Dead Sea Scrolls.
There is much to be gleaned from a fresh analysis of our questions from any and all of these sources.
So, in closing I would encourage you to consider joining this new and exciting site. While I am a member of this site, I want this to be a dialogue in its truest sense. This is not about finding out what Ross believes on this or that topic. I will be participating to learn from you as much as I intend to share any knowledge that I may possess on a given subject. I want to invite Biblical scholars, Jewish rabbis, Fundamentalist Christians, Jews, etc. Each of us has a valuable contribution to our collective understanding if we can present and be allowed to present these views in accordance with what I have outlined above.
Our modern way of thinking has conditioned us to think that learning is only gained through answers to our questions. The ancient rabbis, and this includes Jesus, often taught people through asking more questions when faced with a question. Quite often this form of teaching leads the student to “answers” on their own that they would not have considered if a formulated “answer” had been given.
Are you ready to learn?
Dialogue
Members of this site will be able to interact with others in a healthy and yet forsaken art – the ancient art of Dialogue! Many religious institutions shy away from questions. Not so at Roots of Faith. I believe that most people have legitimate questions as well as an earnest desire to find real answers. I also believe that collectively we can learn if we enter into respectful dialogue with others.
Dialogue is something that took place in the formative years of Christianity in the synagogue every Sabbath, but rarely takes place within the walls of religious institutions today. See how it is used in the following passages for example. (Acts 17:2, 17; 18:4, 19; 19:8, 9; 20:7, 9; 24:5). In each of these passages we have forms of the Greek word dialogomai. The word is defined as:
1. of a reasoned discussion – discuss, discourse with, conduct a discussion 2. of disputation – contend, argue, dispute 3. of speaking with someone in order to convince, address, speak, reason with.
I want people to carefully and respectfully consider the ideas of others. Trying to understand where a person is coming from without being judgmental is very hard for most of us. Often we attempt to force ideas, coerce and persuade others rather than provide an open forum to express differing views and to allow the expression of differing views in order to gain mutual learning by effective communications.
I see this site as an excellent opportunity to exchange ideas and so I encourage you to consider joining this site. If however you are one that already has all the answers, or has an agenda to convert everyone to a particular point of view, or are seeking to condemn or otherwise ridicule anyone for not defining things according to your pre-determined view (s), then this site is not for you.
I recognize through personal experience that it is very difficult to have civil conversations about differing Biblical beliefs. The scars of ghostly inquisitions from the past and the present fear of being labeled a heretic often drive people to search for truth in solitude.
I personally believe that the faith of many has been stunted by not providing people with a forum to ask questions. Great spiritual enlightenment is always birthed by an irresistible desire to search for truth and the boldness to sell all for that elusive pearl of great price. Many have lost family and friends – and in some cases their life as a result of seeking after truth and discovering that they had been lied to. The prophet Jeremiah speaks about a time when Gentiles will go unto God from the ends of earth, lamenting that their fathers have inherited lies, vanity and things wherein there is no profit (Jeremiah 16:19).
May we all be like those Bereans of old, declared to be more noble than the Thessalonians because they did two things: (1) received the word with all readiness of mind and (2) they searched the Scriptures daily to see if those things were true. (Acts 17:11)
I am reminded of a wonderful saying found in the Sayings of the Fathers (Mishna Avoth 2:6) that says, “The timid student does not learn and the stern teacher does not educate.”
I really believe this to be true. I, like all of you have some firmly held convictions. Many of us have MANY such convictions. I for one am learning to listen and learn from those who have a differing opinion than I. Some of the most valuable learning for me has been gained from actively listening to a view with which I had not been familiar, but that was presented with evidence and tact.
So if you have honest questions about faith related issues and are open to consider the views of others, to constructively and respectfully challenge long established doctrines and dogmas, all the while allowing yourself to be vulnerable and teachable then this site is probably for you. I have to believe that most people try to act with integrity based upon what they see and know at any given time.
I want to encourage open advocacy and authentic inquiry on this site. In order for this to work, and for you to remain on this list you must understand and utilize both.
Open advocacy can be defined as “stating a position that permits others to state a different position.” Examples of using open advocacy include prefacing a statement in one of the following ways:
This is the way I see it…
This is what I think (or believe) and why…
I suggest…
Let’s try….
Have you considered this in your current understanding?
I have always understood that to mean this…..
From what I have studied, this was understood in this way by the ancients….
Examples of what open advocacy is NOT are as follows:
This is how it is……
You have to believe this……
It’s obvious…..
There’s no way…..
Open advocacy must be balanced by authentic inquiry. This can be defined as “asking questions to gain a better understanding or to deepen understanding.” Examples include language such as:
What do you see?
Why do we believe this?
What is the basis for this doctrine?
How do you understand this passage?
Help me understand why you believe that…
What leads you to that conclusion?
Could you give me an example or perhaps say more?
What do you mean when you say…….?
What might we be missing when we look at things in this way?
So you see, this method of dialogue could be very instructive. I am of the opinion that we must look to the book to find the answers to our questions. The Second Temple period gave us a rich body of learning that includes;
The Hebrew Bible – the Bible that Jesus and his earliest followers used (now called the Old Testament),
The New Testament or Christian Scriptures, which tell us much about the way that various people and groups interpreted their Bible (the Hebrew Bible or Old Testament)
Other Ancient religious texts (gnostic gospels, Apocrypha, etc)
We also have some incredible learning in Jewish literature (Talmud, Mishna, etc),
Not to mention the corpus of texts known to the modern world as the Dead Sea Scrolls.
There is much to be gleaned from a fresh analysis of our questions from any and all of these sources.
So, in closing I would encourage you to consider joining this new and exciting site. While I am a member of this site, I want this to be a dialogue in its truest sense. This is not about finding out what Ross believes on this or that topic. I will be participating to learn from you as much as I intend to share any knowledge that I may possess on a given subject. I want to invite Biblical scholars, Jewish rabbis, Fundamentalist Christians, Jews, etc. Each of us has a valuable contribution to our collective understanding if we can present and be allowed to present these views in accordance with what I have outlined above.
Our modern way of thinking has conditioned us to think that learning is only gained through answers to our questions. The ancient rabbis, and this includes Jesus, often taught people through asking more questions when faced with a question. Quite often this form of teaching leads the student to “answers” on their own that they would not have considered if a formulated “answer” had been given.
Are you ready to learn?
Tags: Respect, dialogue, rules
Views: 5
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Suzanne Manthei on -
You know I've been a Believer long enough that I was a member of the old Charismatic circles in the early '80's. I've been a Journalist all my life, so I got in trouble back then also for questioning what I saw too much. But suffice it to say, I've seen alot of how the church/religious world works. One thing I've noticed... is that the Charismatics complained about all the problems the denominational churches had... so they started non-denominational churches... and within a few months/years- they were just like the churches they left. Almost 30 years later I constantly see new churches opening and they always say, "we want to be different, not like the dead churches," and they always end up the same as the "other churches." Now, in the last four years, I've seen the same thing happen in the Messianic groups. For once I'm grateful that my husband's job has transferred us- because the old group had started their bickering. Now in Shreveport I go to a wonderful Jewish synagogue (not Messianic) and you know what? Totally different attitude. Two Jews, three opinions as they say. Liberals, conservatives, orthodox, reform and now several Gentiles... they all worship together and don't bicker. They have a different attitude than the Christians. They believe they can learn from any debate.. that it's okay to hear another's opinion, disagree and still not get mad at each other... they don't believe in one person "having to be right." Of course, I know there are probably judgmental, mean Jews in many places too.. but at least they aren't like most Christians who turn their back, frown or fuss if you think different... Hmmm... maybe we should learn from the Jews.
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Permalink Reply by eric john nagel on -
On this fourth day of the week, I read Tehillim 94. Verses 11-12 follow:
YHWH knows the thoughts of man, that they are vanity.
Happy is the man whom You instruct, O Yah, and teach out of Your Torah;
ejn
Hezakiah Levinson said:You're right,Ross,as usual. I freaked and I'm sorry about it. I completely handled it wrong and should keep a better control on anger issues. I wish to apologize to any and all offended,especially the newest member.You have every right to express what you will. Forgive my ignorance in behavior.
The Covenant of Fellowship entered in by the disciples of Rabbi Menachem Mendel of Rimanov: Bab Metzia 58 Resolved from words of scolding and denunciation,which our Holy Rabbi has barred as transgressing the law against murder.
Siach Sarfei Kodesh:The verse in Psalms81:8:I answered thee in the secret place of thunder;I proved thee at the waters of Meribah teaches us that the L-rd will answer the prayer of the man who keeps his anger secret,though highly provoked by the other man's quarrelsomeness. (Note:Meribeh=Quarrelsomeness)
Derehk Emunah U-Maaseh Rav: The angry man fills his mouth with live coals and with needles,sharp and hard.For each angry word he utters,he deserves to be banished from holiness in shame and disgrace,and to suffer grievously until his soul is purified from its blemishes. Every man must be the master of his mouth.
Quite a few have contacted me and asked me to keep posting. One of my Ephramite sisters,whose friendship and opinions I value as kinship, reminded me why I have been lecturing,writing and teaching Torah to anyone seeking its truth for the last fifteen years.It's a good thing to have a friend that cares enough to pull your fingers out of your ears and pry your eyes open when the stupidity of anger kicks in and overrides your common sense and duty to your fellow man.
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Permalink Reply by Suzanne Manthei on
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I have been attending a wonderful synagogue in North Louisiana with a gifted Rabbi because there is no Messianic group around. One thing I've noticed about the wonderful Jews there. They have a huge variety of opinions on social, political and spiritual matters but do not have a judgmental spirit or attitude and worship together as friends. I've also noticed that they welcome people who believe different than they because it is if they are eager to learn everything about everyone. My husband was transferred here for the Pipeline Industry and while he is nearly always ignored in the Christian churches because he is quiet and unassuming and obviously not wealthy- in the synagogue, the men will often follow him across the room to meet "the new guy" then when they find out what he does, they want to learn everything they can from him about his knowledge of the pipeline industry. Notice they will seek him out before they know what he does. I believe from my observations this past year that the Jews are interested in other people because even if they are different, they see everything and everyone as an educational/intellectual enjoyment. People always say the Jews are blessed because they are God's chosen, but by being around a fully Jewish community for over a year now.. I believe they are blessed because as a culture of people they by and large live by good basic financial and educational principles and teach their children to live by these principles. And for the most part, they live by good moral and social principles. This is why they are blessed. The majority of Christians say they do, but often don't in so many areas. My point is this... if we want to begin living the Biblical lifestyle which the Jews follow and one of them is respect a person and be polite, kind, professional as much as possible- whether you agree with them or not. Sad to say, because I'm about as nice and normal as you can get, but have always had a low income... I've been in Christian churches for over 40 years and have never seen this attitude en masse among Christian people. Of course there are always exceptions... they're are many good Christians, but there aren't many un-cliquish Christians. I hope we will think about this and stop acting like Christians and instead act like Yeshua.
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Permalink Reply by eric john nagel on
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Amen and many Blessings to you and your family. Thanks for your input.
Suzanne Manthei said:I have been attending a wonderful synagogue in North Louisiana with a gifted Rabbi because there is no Messianic group around. One thing I've noticed about the wonderful Jews there. They have a huge variety of opinions on social, political and spiritual matters but do not have a judgmental spirit or attitude and worship together as friends. I've also noticed that they welcome people who believe different than they because it is if they are eager to learn everything about everyone. My husband was transferred here for the Pipeline Industry and while he is nearly always ignored in the Christian churches because he is quiet and unassuming and obviously not wealthy- in the synagogue, the men will often follow him across the room to meet "the new guy" then when they find out what he does, they want to learn everything they can from him about his knowledge of the pipeline industry. Notice they will seek him out before they know what he does. I believe from my observations this past year that the Jews are interested in other people because even if they are different, they see everything and everyone as an educational/intellectual enjoyment. People always say the Jews are blessed because they are God's chosen, but by being around a fully Jewish community for over a year now.. I believe they are blessed because as a culture of people they by and large live by good basic financial and educational principles and teach their children to live by these principles. And for the most part, they live by good moral and social principles. This is why they are blessed. The majority of Christians say they do, but often don't in so many areas. My point is this... if we want to begin living the Biblical lifestyle which the Jews follow and one of them is respect a person and be polite, kind, professional as much as possible- whether you agree with them or not. Sad to say, because I'm about as nice and normal as you can get, but have always had a low income... I've been in Christian churches for over 40 years and have never seen this attitude en masse among Christian people. Of course there are always exceptions... they're are many good Christians, but there aren't many un-cliquish Christians. I hope we will think about this and stop acting like Christians and instead act like Yeshua.
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Permalink Reply by forrest curo on -
Suzanne Manthei said:"Now in Shreveport I go to a wonderful Jewish synagogue (not Messianic) and you know what? Totally different attitude. Two Jews, three opinions as they say. Liberals, conservatives, orthodox, reform and now several Gentiles... they all worship together and don't bicker. They have a different attitude than the Christians. They believe they can learn from any debate.. "
This struck me very much when my wife & I were attending the P'nai Or Synagogue in Philadelphia!
The rabbi, a close friend of our gospels class teacher at Pendle Hill, had invited us all for one session, and the two of us kept coming whenever possible. Any sincere idea arising from that week's Torah portion was treated as part of its legitimate meaning. T'was a bright, loving, spiritually-connected group of people!
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Permalink Reply by Ross Nichols on -
I think that some may not have read this.
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Permalink Reply by Anne McLeod on -
I had not read it before, but it is a perfect reminder for us all. Thank you for re-posting!
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