Any other Lunar Sabbatarians on here?

Are there any keepers of the true Sabbath on this board?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Paul W Puckett on July 11, 2010 at 10:43am

Where does Exodus 12:18 fit
This is a question for those of you holding the sunrise model of the reckoning of the day.
I've been doing a bit of study on the sunrise model of reckoning of day and am seeking some input.
Exodus 12:18 defines the point in time for the beginning of the 7 days of Unleavened Bread.
Could you please define for me where this point of time is in the sunrise model of the reckoning of day.
Appreciation extended
Paul

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Permalink Reply by John Wickes on July 11, 2010 at 11:43am

not sure if this is helpful. I have seen other posts that debate if the 'even' is the beginning of the 14th or the end. To me this passage and how it talks about an other day pretty much clears that up. the '10th day of the months starts on the even of the 9th.
Lev 23:26-32
26 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
27 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
28 And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
29 For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.
30 And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people.
31 Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.
(KJV)

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Permalink Reply by timothy miles russell on January 27, 2011 at 6:21pm

"lunar sabbath" is a nonsense concept. if any of you are lurking around, defend your claim.

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Permalink Reply by Ross Nichols on January 27, 2011 at 7:03pm

Timothy,

Even if you believe that the "lunar Sabbath" is a "nonsense concept", we try and steer away from such statements. This debate has 178 replies. I suggest you read those and then write a detailed response to the best arguments put forth by the followers of the lunar Sabbath. I look forward to reading your view.

Thanks and shalom, Ross

timothy miles russell said:

"lunar sabbath" is a nonsense concept. if any of you are lurking around, defend your claim.

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Permalink Reply by timothy miles russell on January 27, 2011 at 10:47pm

i was able to reach page seven...

which allowed me to examine evidence of the discord exposed by this topic- apparently several members seceded and took with them any contributions they had made to the site. thank you Ross, for your gentle advice. at times, i can be impersonal online.
Ross Nichols said:

Timothy,

Even if you believe that the "lunar Sabbath" is a "nonsense concept", we try and steer away from such statements. This debate has 178 replies. I suggest you read those and then write a detailed response to the best arguments put forth by the followers of the lunar Sabbath. I look forward to reading your view.

Thanks and shalom, Ross

timothy miles russell said:

"lunar sabbath" is a nonsense concept. if any of you are lurking around, defend your claim.

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Paul W Puckett on January 28, 2011 at 7:24am

Hello Tim;

I'd like to offer my own personal testimony. I began keeping saturday in 1976. In the spring of 2009, Yahuweh led me to the truth about the feasts, onto the biblical calendar, then to the sabbath on that same calendar. I had known about the feasts for about 10 years, studying whether they were still part of Yah's plan. In the spring of 2009, I became convicted that they were. I began to obey by observing the Passover memorial. My journey began with obedience to His word. No more had I done that than the blinders began to be ripped away. It has been an amazing journey since. I have spent the last two years doing my own indepth study of the calendar and the sabbath on that calendar.

I became convicted of the overall law of Yah, his appointed times, including the sabbath on a calendar that is orchestrated by the heavens that the creator spread before us. It's been a tremendous learning process, and I have been richly blessed by it.

I was dismayed when I saw your first post, figuring you like many others were here just to creation friction and cause trouble. When I saw you admission that you could be a little impersonal online, I saw something different.It was almost like someone that was coming under conviction, but couldn't not yet fully believe what they were seeing. I was like this when I first discovered all this.

If you came here to learn, that's good. There are many good sites where one can learn if that is their goal. If however, one only wants to refute, there are probably a lot more places to do that.

One of the things I have discovered, is that I cannot substantiate by scripture, the saturday position I held for 34 years. Most saturday keeping churches don't keep the feasts as well. It's all part of Yah's plan, when we allow ourselves to take a look and see it.

Here's a way to think about the sabbath issue.

Suppose you awake to find yourself in the middle of a wilderness. You see nothing but desolation or wilderness in any direction as far as the eye can see. You have lost all track of time, including days of the week, or the month or year for that matter. You have no idea when sabbath is, but you want to return to keeping it to honor God. You have no technology; no cell phone, no computer, no timepiece, no calendar, nothing. The only thing you have is a Bible. Using the Bible, reestablish where you are in time, and begin keeping the sabbath again.

Don't you think Yah would have left a way in His word for us to determine when to keep His holy times?

Regards

Paul

timothy miles russell said:

i was able to reach page seven...

which allowed me to examine evidence of the discord exposed by this topic- apparently several members seceded and took with them any contributions they had made to the site. thank you Ross, for your gentle advice. at times, i can be impersonal online.
Ross Nichols said:

Timothy,

Even if you believe that the "lunar Sabbath" is a "nonsense concept", we try and steer away from such statements. This debate has 178 replies. I suggest you read those and then write a detailed response to the best arguments put forth by the followers of the lunar Sabbath. I look forward to reading your view.

Thanks and shalom, Ross

timothy miles russell said:

"lunar sabbath" is a nonsense concept. if any of you are lurking around, defend your claim.

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by timothy miles russell on January 28, 2011 at 9:07pm

hi Paul,

i appreciate the concern. i was first convicted of the importance of Shabbat around the same time you first began to celebrate Pesach. i began to study Torah, learned about the Moedim and celebrated Yom Teruah in the seventh month of that year... what are your thoughts on Messiah? i am also curious about your background, in 1976 were you associated with the seventh day adventists?

this is my response to your hypothetical. suppose i didnt even have a Bible. i believe that if, in that situation, i were righteous enough to cry out to our Father with my entire being- out of unequivocal despair about the loss of the sign and pleasure of His Covenant, that He would send a messenger to re-establish my well being. maybe the second best option would be to sit there and fast until He provided an answer- if you dont know when the Sabbath is, dont work... of course He does say six days you are to do work... but Amos 3:7 says (in the hcsb) Indeed, the Lord GOD does nothing without revealing His counsel to His servants the prophets. i do try to be a good servant but i certainly do not claim to be a prophet. and maybe you interpret that to mean that He has already revealed this counsel, for such an occasion...

but my best response would have to do with:

¹² The LORD said to Moses: ¹³ "Tell the Israelites: You must observe My Sabbaths, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, so that you will know that I am the LORD who sets you apart. ^(E) ¹⁴ Observe the Sabbath, for it is holy to you. Whoever profanes it must be put to death. If anyone does work on it, that person must be cut off from his people. ^(F) ¹⁵ For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there must be a Sabbath of complete rest, ^(G) dedicated to the LORD. Anyone who does work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. ¹⁶ The Israelites must observe the Sabbath, celebrating it throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. ¹⁷ It is a sign forever between Me and the Israelites, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, but on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed." Exodus 31 hcsb

and also the blessings in Deuteronomy 28... i believe that in this, our Father has given us Instructions to ensure that such a thing never happens.

Shabbat Shalom,

timothy miles

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Permalink Reply by Paul W Puckett on January 29, 2011 at 5:42am

Good morning Timothy;

Thanks for you reply. Yes, I was a member of the SDA church from 1976 until Jan 22 2011. I recently requested my membership be removed due to the fact that I no longer stand on the complete platform of the church. I saved them the trouble of disfellowshipping me, as they are doing with some that are discovered to be following the biblical calendar. I still believe that the SDA church had a special mission at one time, may still have somewhat. I have found though, that they have not been forthright about releasing information specifically related to the calendar, that was uncovered in 1938 and 1939. I also still find merit in the writings of Ellen White, although I've had to revise my thinking in how I view her works. Feel free to ask if you have any more questions about his part.

Regarding "messiah," not sure of your question here. I do believe in Yahushua mashiach as my savior. So maybe you could be a little more specific in your question.

Regarding your response to the hypothetical situation. The "sitting and waiting" may work and Yah may bless you with some sort of response. But I think if it is clear in His word, and His word is in my hand, I would be searching it to see what I could find. And I believe He has spelled it out for us. In the verses you quote, it is clear that keeping the sabbath is part of Yah's plan.

Consider Exodus 16. and the verses that relate specifically to the calendar.

Exo 16:1 And they took their journey from Elim, and all the congregation of the children of Israel came unto the wilderness of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the fifteenth day of the second month after their departing out of the land of Egypt.
Exo 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
Exo 16:5 And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.
Exo 16:22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
Exo 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
Exo 16:25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
Exo 16:26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
Exo 16:27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
Exo 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
Exo 16:29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
Exo 16:30 So the people rested on the seventh day.

Several points and questions are made in these texts.

The 7th day sabbath is outlined and given.
This 7th day sabbath has to be the same as creation sabbath.
The description and format given are the same as in Genesis 1 and 2; work 6 days; rest on the 7th day sabbath.
These verses refer to sabbath on a calendar; they do not refer to the other appointed times, which are on the same calendar.
The first day mentioned is the 15th day. 6 days and sabbath bring us to the 22nd day. From these, we can extrapolate the other sabbaths; 8th and 29th.
Numbered days are given throughout scripture, indicating a calendar of some kind.
All references to a calendar in scripture, old and new testament, give date references from the same calendar.
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/47190183/Building-Blocks-of-Gods-Sacred...
The word saturday in any form, nor sunday for that matter, can be found in Yah's holy word.
No continuous weekly count can be found in scripture.
http://yahwehstruelunarsabbathcalendar.blogspot.com/2010/03/continu...

Other points not made specifically with these verses:
Rome (the source of our calendars since 46BC) did not come into existence until around 753BC.
Until around 46 BC, history reflects that even Rome was on a lunar calendar, as were many other nations of the world at that time and before.
Historical evidences support that the Israelites were on a lunisolar calendar until sometime in the first 4 centuries CE.
http://yahwehstruelunarsabbathcalendar.blogspot.com/2010/02/histori...

I leave you with these thoughts to ponder. Look forward to continuing the discussion if you care to do so.
Regards
Paul

timothy miles russell said:

hi Paul,

i appreciate the concern. i was first convicted of the importance of Shabbat around the same time you first began to celebrate Pesach. i began to study Torah, learned about the Moedim and celebrated Yom Teruah in the seventh month of that year... what are your thoughts on Messiah? i am also curious about your background, in 1976 were you associated with the seventh day adventists?

this is my response to your hypothetical. suppose i didnt even have a Bible. i believe that if, in that situation, i were righteous enough to cry out to our Father with my entire being- out of unequivocal despair about the loss of the sign and pleasure of His Covenant, that He would send a messenger to re-establish my well being. maybe the second best option would be to sit there and fast until He provided an answer- if you dont know when the Sabbath is, dont work... of course He does say six days you are to do work... but Amos 3:7 says (in the hcsb) Indeed, the Lord GOD does nothing without revealing His counsel to His servants the prophets. i do try to be a good servant but i certainly do not claim to be a prophet. and maybe you interpret that to mean that He has already revealed this counsel, for such an occasion...

but my best response would have to do with:

¹² The LORD said to Moses: ¹³ "Tell the Israelites: You must observe My Sabbaths, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, so that you will know that I am the LORD who sets you apart. ^(E) ¹⁴ Observe the Sabbath, for it is holy to you. Whoever profanes it must be put to death. If anyone does work on it, that person must be cut off from his people. ^(F) ¹⁵ For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there must be a Sabbath of complete rest, ^(G) dedicated to the LORD. Anyone who does work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. ¹⁶ The Israelites must observe the Sabbath, celebrating it throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. ¹⁷ It is a sign forever between Me and the Israelites, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, but on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed." Exodus 31 hcsb

and also the blessings in Deuteronomy 28... i believe that in this, our Father has given us Instructions to ensure that such a thing never happens.

Shabbat Shalom,

timothy miles