Can we just agree to be agreeable?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Allen on January 15, 2010 at 6:05pm

Shalom Ted,

Does our website indicate an affiliation? We will make sure to fix any possible connection right away if you spot one.

We are a group of people dedicated to serving the Eternal and seeking the unification of the house of Yosef. We have no affiliations with any organized group.

Allen



Ted Walther said:

Thanks for the link, Allen. Is your group affiliated with those known as the "Twelve Tribes"?

Ted

Allen said:

Shalom,

This is truth. I live amongst my brothers & sisters in Kibbutz Beth Lechem in South Carolina. Our website is here..... 1Bread.org

Ted Walther said:

Allen, where is this community? Is it true? Does it really exist?

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Permalink Reply by Ted Walther on January 15, 2010 at 6:18pm

Allen, the only connection was a spiritual one; you use the name Yahweh, you think Saturday is the 7th day, communal living, racially mixed Hebrew Roots, Ephraimite/Messianic type community. Seemed identical to the 12 tribes, although I saw no specific link.

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Permalink Reply by William Michaels on January 19, 2010 at 11:03pm

for many Jewish Kings there is the comment that they did not completely get rid of the pagan idolatry (alright i am not quoting but the gist is correct) and Israel or Judah was the worse for it. leading me to agree with the idea that we need to remove Idolatry from our lives. The TORAH is the instruction manual and it behooves us to pay attention as the instructor is HaSHem and there are tests. That includes the Sabbath etc..

making even oddballs like me welcome is good the unwelcome tend to leave and, by causing that, we may be found to be working against the instructor.

many paths have brought us here but love of HaSHem and TORAH is what we mainly have in common. most of you are farther along the path than i as TORAH is just now being opened for me.

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Permalink Reply by Anders Branderud on January 5, 2011 at 1:42pm

Shalom!

My name is Anders, I live in Sweden and have been doing my utmost to keep the directives of Torah non-selectivelyfor more than 3,5 years. I am recognized as a geir – see Shemot [‘Exodus’] 12:49 – by beit din ha-Netzarim [3].

 

First of all, we can agree on that Tan''kh is inspired by HaSheim and that we are required by the Creator to do His Will revealed in it.

 

Thus, we can agree on that the Creator requires of mankind to do their utmost to keep the directives of Torah non-selectively [1]. Right?

 

What does this include?

 

According to Torah this includes observance of real-world historical and logical Halakhah (i.e. Oral Torah) [ Shemot - 'Exodus'-15:39; Devâr•im′ -'Deuteronomy'- 17:9-13] [2].

 

That is, we can agree on that the Creator requires of us to observe His Torah according to real-world historical and logical Halakhah [2].Right?

 

Historically, what have been the requirements in order tobe included in the Pact with the Creator?

What has been the directives of His Torah including real-world historical and logical Halakhah?

“At least from the time of Mount Sinai theonly two options enabling gentiles to obtain nilwëh status– status of being grafted in – from a Beit-Din –i.e. a Judaic court - into Qehilat ha-Sheim - theConvocation of the Creator - were and remain:

1. by B^'rit Milâh –circumcision -  and hitgaiyrut –conversion -  according to Halâkhâh - becominga Jew, or

 

2.obtaining nilwëh statuswithout B'rit Milâh (i.e.,without hitgaiy^’rut), in otherwords, as a geir.⁴ ”

 

If we agree on that the Creator requires us to observe His Torah according to real-world historical and logical Halakhah [2];then we should be able to agree on that a person is required to subordinate to a beit-din - led by an Jew in good standing in the Torah-observant [i.e. Orthodox [not ultra-Orthodox]] Jewish community – in order for a non-Jew to be counted as a part of Israel, right?

 

I will be glad to read your comments!

 

Notes

1.Documentation of statement: http://sevenlawsofnoah.wordpress.com/2010/12/28/seven-laws-of-a-noa...

 

2. More information on www.netzarim.co.il ; Glossaries; Mishpat

 

3.Beit din ha [Judaic court of]-Netzarim in Ra’anana in Israel – http://www.netzarim.co.il – led by an Orthodox Jew – in good standing in the Jewish Yemenite community - called Paqid Yirmeyahu Ben Dawid

 

4. Quote and thorough documentation of the statement in the book 'Atonement in the New Biblical Covenant'; available on http://www.schuellerhouse.com/bookcat.htm

 

Definition of a geir - a non-Jewish Torah observant proselyte recognized by a beit din, led by a Jew recognized in the Torah-observant Jewish community - found on the above Netzarim-website [Glossaries; Geir].

 

Shalom, Anders

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Permalink Reply by Anders Branderud on January 5, 2011 at 4:43pm

Shalom Sandra!

 

Update: I am not talking about some rabbinic degree which exceeds Torah and logical mishpat; what I am talking above you can find below.  

Yes,there are indeed much stringency exceeding Torah and the real-world historical and logical mishpat. Some of these are the definition of melakhah,which contradicts the ancient Tan’’kh-definition [2]; the prohibition of using electricity on Shabat [3] and prohibition for men to shave ones beard shorterthan a specified minimum length [4].

 

What is your comment to this about the word ‘mishpat’. The following definition is derived from Tan’’kh. Please read carefully [if there are any words you don’t understand, you can click on the words]:

 

mi•shpât′; sentence (in both senses:jurisprudence & grammar) or judgment, especially of a Beit-Din). The plural is מִשׁפָּטִים     (mishpâtim′).

מִשׁפָּט      derives from the stem שָׁפַט     (shâ•phat′;, to judge), and is a cognateof שׁוֹפֵט  (sho•pheit′,judge of a Beit-Din), plural שׁוֹפטִים (Sho•ph^әt•im′)—which is the name of a book of Ta•na"kh′. The connective plural is -מִשׁפְּטֵי (mishpât•ei′-…).

Mishpâtim′ are the product of Shophtim′ of a Beit-Din, who adjudicate questions and disputes (in contrast with legislating khuq•im′) in the implementation of Tor•âh′ in real life disputes, applications and cases. Just as in courtrooms today, These mishpâtim′ constitute a res judicata in a system of law based on the principle of stare decisis.

De-Judaized (Hellenized)to "judgment" and various other renderings to avoid recognition ofthe Beit-Din system. mishpât′ concerns the definitive, authoritative and just interpretation of Tor•âh′ applied to real life situations. All other interpretations are "following one's own heart and one's own eyes" (Shemot′ 15:39; Devâr•im′ 17:9-13). Mi•sh^әpât′ has been handed down by the Beit-Din in a chain uninterrupted since Mosh′ëh at Har Sin•ai′.

The deliberations ofthese cases, along with their mishpâtim′, were transmitted orally (except for the Pseudo-Tz^әdoq•im′, who codified their version by the first century C.E.) until the 5^th century C.E. when Tal•mud′ wascompiled. Much Hajâd•âh′ and rabbinic "fences" legislation found in Tal•mud′,though sometimes assumed to be Halâkhâh′, exceed the definition of mishpât′.

While Torâh′ shë-be•al pëh′ - oral Torah -  will always be continually adapting to new technology, conditions and situations, Tor•âh′ shë-bikhtâv′-written Torah-  is complete (Tehil•im′ [Psalms]  91:8). Contrary to some rabbinic assertions, their attempts to alter Torâh′ shë-bikhtâv′ are prohibited by Torâh′ shë-bikh^әtâv′ (e.g., Devarim [Deuteronomy]  27:3,8; 31:24; 4:1-2; 13:1; Shemot′ [”Exodus] 24:4; Yesha•yâh′u [Isaiah] 29:13 & Mi•sh^әl•ei′ Sh^әlom′oh 30:5-6). [1]

1.www.netzarim.co.il ; Glossaries; Mishpat

2. http://bloganders.blogspot.com/2010/06/shabat-and-what-constitutes-...

3. http://bloganders.blogspot.com/2010/06/using-electricity-on-shabat....

4. http://bloganders.blogspot.com/2010/07/according-to-torah-books-of-...

 

Sandra Inglis said:

I do not agree with this. I do not believe that we need to observe and or obey the oral Torah. This is something I definately do not agree on.

Sandra.

Anders Branderud said:

Shalom!

My name is Anders, I live in Sweden and have been doing my utmost to keep the directives of Torah non-selectivelyfor more than 3,5 years. I am recognized as a geir – see Shemot [‘Exodus’] 12:49 – by beit din ha-Netzarim [3].

 

First of all, we can agree on that Tan''kh is inspired by HaSheim and that we are required by the Creator to do His Will revealed in it.

 (..)

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Permalink Reply by Anders Branderud on January 5, 2011 at 6:41pm

Shalom Sandra!

 

Thank you for be willing to listen to the arguments about mishpat! You have been brave and left many false doctrines not in accordance with the Tan''kh in your past; and I am hoping that you – and everyone else reading this - are willing to examine this with an open mind to what the Tan’’kh has to say.

 

We who have a desire to serve the Creator should not come with any assumptions, or pre-conceived notions – but study what the text in Tan’’kh says according to etymological Hebrew.

 

If there is anything that anyone of you all doesn’t understand after you have read this carefully and also clicked on the links, which provides definitions of certain words, then please ask me!!

 

Please understand that all of these Hebrew words in the below text are essential to understand. When I started to study Hebrew – according to its meaning in etymology - I realized that many definitions of words differ from what is written in a Christian ‘translation’. The following text will both contain quotations from the Tan’’kh and some other essential text.

 

 

I added this to myprevious post [here is a corrected version; there was an error in my previouspost:]

I am not talking aboutsome rabbinic degree which exceeds Torah and logical mishpat; what I am talkingabove you can find below.  

Before explaining mishpat I want to add this: Yes, there is indeed much proclaiming to be ‘oral Torah’ exceeding Torah and the real-world historical and logical mishpat. Some of these are the definition of melakhah, which contradicts the ancient Tan’’kh-definition [2]; and the prohibition of using electricity on Shabat [3].

Furthermore there is a prohibition inTorah for men to shave their beard, which one can learn from the real-world historical and logical mishpat, that it meant one is prohibited to shave below a specified minimum length [4]. Yet, some leaders teach that one is allowed to remove all of ones beard with certain methods, in clear contradiction to Torah [4].

Just as legislation is of no value unless it is enforced, so too, if Torah is not implemented it remains mere hypothetical theory. Just as legislation must be interpreted and implemented by competent courts in actual cases to keep the law from being perverted, so too, Torah if not implemented as Mosheh communicated it at Har Sinai then it is perverted.

 

"You shall provide Shophtim [to staff the Batei-Din] and shotrim in all of your gates, which ha-Sheim your Elohim gives you, for all of the tribes of your kindred; and they shall shâphat the kindred in tzedeq  of mishpat (Devarim [‘Deuteronomy’] 16.18).

 

Mosheh stated clearly that the mishpat of the Shophtim of the Batei-Din "is Elohim’s mishpat " (Devarim 1.17). Thus, ha-Sheim calls the mishpatim of the Batei-Din "My mishpatim."

 

Moreover, by commanding the observance of "My mishpatim " in written Torah, י--ה     makes keeping the mishpâtim an integral part of written Torâh:

 

"You shall make/do My mishpâtim andyou shall be shomeir of My khuqim,to holëkh inthem; I am י--ה   your Ëlohim"(wa-Yiqrâ[’Leviticus’] 18.4).

 

Though made by human Shophtim ofthe Batei-Din,"From י--ה is the mishpât-איש (ish; of the man)." (Mishlei Shlomoh [‘Proverbs’] 29.26).

 

Continuing the Patriarchal example of Avrâhâm, Yitzkhaq, and Ya’aqov that was promulgated by the Twelve Tribal chiefs and their successors, Mosheh compiled their corpus of case law, unbroken even while under bondage to the Parohs in Mitzrayim:

 

"And Mosheh sat to adjudicate mishpat for the kindred" (Shemot [’Exodus’] 18.13).

When the burden became too much for one man, Mosheh delegated some of his judicial powers to appointed "Sarim of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties, and of tens"

(Shemot 18.21; Devarim [’Deuteronomy’] 1.17) reserving jurisdiction for himself only over the most difficult, major, and nationally significant issues (Shemot 18.22, 26; Devarim 1.17). This is establishment of the institution of the Beit-Din system.

 

When Benei-Israel settled in Eretz Israel, the allocation of jurisdiction on a purely numerical basis (thousands, hundreds, etc.) was to be replaced by allocation on a local basis throughout the Twelve Tribes. Shophtim were to be appointed to a Beit-Din inevery village, convened in the Name of י--ה in the village gate – the place designated by י--ה in addition to the Beit-Din ha-Jadol located in the Mishkân or,later, the Beit ha-Miqdâsh [’temple’].

 

"When there shall arise an unprecedented matter among you requiring a mishpat … you shall arise and go up to the place that י--ה your Elohim shall choose. Having come to the Kohanim, the Leviyim orthe Shophtim [ofthe Beit-Din] which shall be in those days, seek and they shall relate to you the mishpât ofthe case. With respect to this case, you shall do as they tell you from the place which י--ה shall choose. You shall be shomeir todo everything which they shall morâh you, according to the Torâh that they shall morâh you and you shall do according to the mishpât that they shall tell you. You shall not deviate left nor right from the case as theyrelate it to you. The man who acts presumptuously, to neglect to Shema tothe Kohein who stands ministering to י--ה your Ëlohim there,or to the shopheit [of the Beit-Din],that man shall die. You shall burn out this evil from Israel." (Devârim  [’Deuteronomy’] 17.8-13).

 

Thus, Torah requires Jews to appoint Shophtim of the Beit-Din in every generation who will decide the mishpâtim that accumulate over the centuries – Halakhah (i.e. oral Torah). Those who reject Halakhah therefore, are rejecting the written Tan’’kh, relying on men – and their institutions rather than the written Tan’’kh.

 

The interpretations arising from the implementation of Torâh in real life cases make up the corpus of case law mishpâtim handed down by Batei-Din – Halâkhâh.” [1]

 

These are only some of the 450 admonitions in the written Tan’’kh to obey mishpatim and khuqim.

 

 Notes:

1. Adapted from Who arethe Netzarim; www.netzarim.co.il; Israel Mall (leftmenu); then click on ‘Netzarim’ (bottom menu)

2. http://bloganders.blogspot.com/2010/06/shabat-and-what-constitutes-...

3. http://bloganders.blogspot.com/2010/06/using-electricity-on-shabat....

4. http://bloganders.blogspot.com/2010/07/according-to-torah-books-of-...

 

Have a nice day and I wish shalom to you all!

 

1. Adapted from Who are the Netzarim; www.netzarim.co.il; Israel Mall (left menu); then click on ‘Netzarim’ (bottom menu)

 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Sinai Servant on January 6, 2011 at 12:02am

I personally have absolutely no problem following the directives of any elder or leader of the people as long as what they direct is from the law that was given to Moshe. It must be in the Tanakh/Torah. As already pointed out in a response, the Almighty ordered that judges be appointed to help govern the people and hear their complaints as in Deut 16:18. They had to know Torah in order to know what a right ruling would be. They could not judge righteously unless they had first been instructed from the Torah what a righteous ruling was. This I believe to be that which Moshe (WROTE) down. I also believe it was written down and nothing else was added. Ex 24:3-4 tells us Moshe  wrote (all) the words given to him. This is a written record! Again Deut 31:9 tells the same story of the law (written) down.

 

King Solomon was charged to keep the law of Moshe that was (written) down in 1 Kings 2:3 and many other examples. What this does show is the absence of any oral law. Even though I see some positive things in the Talmud and Mishnah and believe that some of their "fence" laws are in fact a good safe guard, this does not constitute what Moshe (wrote) down. Any writings outside of the Tanakh are merely commentary and extra Biblical compilations and are not authoritative nor are they worthy of being given equal standing. We were warned in Deut 4:2 not to add or take away from His word. Unfortunately this is exactly what has happened. If I am cast out of a synagogue, group or even dumped from a website because I won't consider the oral law or the traditions of man as binding and legal and equal with Torah - then I am happy to be ejected. To say that because the Almighty spoke to Moshe constitutes an oral law is like trying to deny the laws of gravity and jump from a great height. You just can't stretch it that far.So for me, if you want me to follow anything it had better be in the Written Torah. I am not obligated to follow anything else.

 

Anders, you have obviously put a lot of time and study into this and I thank you for that. I just wanted to point out my position. Hope I haven't offended you as that was not my intention. I am black and white when it comes to what is thrown around in the believing world as the (law of Moshe) Shavua tov

 

Sinai Servant

     

Sandra Inglis said:

 

Shalom,

Thank you for your response. I have not completed reading it yet, and I would just like to make a comment on the first point you made. I was just looking at the verse you gave in Deuteronomy 16:18

"You shall provide Shophtim [to staff the Batei-Din] and shotrim in all of your gates, which ha-Sheim your Elohim gives you, for all of the tribes of your kindred; and they shall shâphat the kindred in tzedeq  of mishpat (Devarim [‘Deuteronomy’] 16.18).

 

 I looked at this verse in my JPS Tanakh and also at the following verses, this is what it says:

Judges and officers shalt thou make thee in all thy gates, which YeHoWaH thy God giveth thee, tribe by tribe; and they shall judge the people with righteous judgment. Thou shalt not wrest judgment; thou shalt not respect persons; neither shalt thou take a gift; for a gift doth blind the eyes of the wise, and pervert the words of the righteous. Justice, justice shalt thou follow, that thou mayest live, and inherit the land which YeHoWaH thy God giveth thee.
(Deuteronomy 16:18-20)

 

So would you agree that Shophtim are Judges and officers who are appointed to judge the people with righteous judgement?

 

This is what I believe this is saying: YeHoWaH did command the children of Israel to appoint judges and officers to judge the people in righteous judgement, but these judges and officers were not to be chosen only from the tribe of Judah, they were to be chosen from all the tribes. This is not the case today. They were to be chosen to judge the people in righteous judgement, that is, they were to judge disputes and those who broke the law according to the written Torah (written law of YeHoWaH). They were not appointed to make the law, or to add to it. They already had the written law, given to them by Moses, which he received from YeHoWaH and recorded in the book of the law.

 

I do not see that the Rabbi's who wrote the oral Torah were doing this. They were not acting as judges who judge in righteous judgement, some may have been, but it is obvious that many were adding to the laws.

 

Moses was commanded to read the Torah to all the people. The written Torah is the law they were to abide by, and is the law by which they were to be judged by, in righteous judgement. Any additions to that law are man made laws and those being judged by man made laws are not being judged with righteous judgement. Those who judge by man made laws are not obeying the Torah of YeHoWaH. They are not following the commands of YeHoWaH, but become a law unto themselves.

 

We are told to obey the law of Moses. We are not told to obey the law of anyone else. Moses wrote down all the law which YeHoWaH gave to him.

 

And Moses came and told the people all the words of YeHoWaH, and all the ordinances; and all the people answered with one voice, and said: 'All the words which the Lord hath spoken will we do.' And Moses wrote all the words of YeHoWaH, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the mount, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel. (Exodus 24:3-4) 

 

And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, that bore the ark of the covenant of YeHoWaH, and unto all the elders of Israel. And Moses commanded them, saying: 'At the end of every seven years, in the set time of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles, when all Israel is come to appear before YeHoWaH thy God in the place which He shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing. Assemble the people, the men and the women and the little ones, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear YeHoWaH your God, and observe to do all the words of this law; and that their children, who have not known, may hear, and learn to fear YeHoWaH your God, as long as ye live in the land whither ye go over the Jordan to possess it.' (Deuteronomy 31:9-13)

 

Then Joshua built an altar unto YeHoWaH, the God of Israel, in mount Ebal, as Moses the servant of YeHoWaH commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses, an altar of unhewn stones, upon which no man had lifted up any iron; and they offered thereon burnt-offerings unto YeHoWaH, and sacrificed peace-offerings. And he wrote there upon the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he wrote before the children of Israel. And all Israel, and their elders and officers, and their judges, stood on this side the ark and on that side before the priests the Levites, that bore the ark of the covenant of YeHoWaH, as well the stranger as the home-born; half of them in front of mount Gerizim and half of them in front of mount Ebal; as Moses the servant of YeHoWaH had commanded at the first, that they should bless the people of Israel. And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessing and the curse, according to all that is written in the book of the law. There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua read not before all the assembly of Israel, and the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that walked among them. (Joshua 8:30-35)

 

Now the days of David drew nigh that he should die; and he charged Solomon his son, saying: 'I go the way of all the earth; be thou strong therefore, and show thyself a man; and keep the charge of YeHoWaH thy God, to walk in His ways, to keep His statutes, and His commandments, and His ordinances, and His testimonies, according to that which is written in the law of Moses, that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself; that YeHoWaH may establish His word which He spoke concerning me, saying: If thy children take heed to their way, to walk before Me in truth with all their heart and with all their soul, there shall not fail thee, said He, a man on the throne of Israel. (1 Kings 2:1-4)

 

Righteous judges and kings, judged according to the written law of Moses.

 

And it came to pass, as soon as the kingdom was established in his hand, that he slew his servants who had slain the king his father; but the children of the murderers he put not to death; according to that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, as YeHoWaH commanded saying: 'The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin.' (2 Kings 14:5-6)

 

And like unto him was there no king before him, that turned to YeHoWaH with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his might, according to all the law of Moses; neither after him arose there any like him. (2 Kings 23:25)

 

And Jehoiada appointed the offices of the house of YeHoWaH under the hand of the priests the Levites, whom David had distributed in the house of YeHoWaH, to offer the burnt-offerings of YeHoWaH, as it is written in the Law of Moses, with rejoicing and with singing, according to the direction of David. (2 Chronicles 23:18)

 

Then they killed the passover lamb on the fourteenth day of the second month; and the priests and the Levites were ashamed, and sanctified themselves, and brought burnt-offerings into the house of YeHoWaH. And they stood in their place after their order, according to the law of Moses the man of God; the priests dashed the blood, which they received of the hand of the Levites. (2 Chronicles 30:15-16)

 

Then stood up Jeshua the son of Jozadak, and his brethren the priests, and Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and his brethren, and builded the altar of the God of Israel, to offer burnt-offerings thereon, as it is written in the Law of Moses the man of God. (Ezra 3:2)

 

this Ezra went up from Babylon; and he was a ready scribe in the Law of Moses, which YeHoWaH, the God of Israel, had given; and the king granted him all his request, according to the hand of YeHoWaH his God upon him. (Ezra 7:6)

 

all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the broad place that was before the water gate; and they spoke unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the Law of Moses, which YeHoWaH had commanded to Israel. And Ezra the priest brought the Law before the congregation, both men and women, and all that could hear with understanding, upon the first day of the seventh month. And he read therein before the broad place that was before the water gate from early morning until midday, in the presence of the men and the women, and of those that could understand; and the ears of all the people were attentive unto the book of the Law. (Nehemiah 8:1-3)

 

Yea, all Israel have transgressed Thy law, and have turned aside, so as not to hearken to Thy voice; and so there hath been poured out upon us the curse and the oath that is written in the Law of Moses the servant of God; for we have sinned against Him. (Daniel 9:11)

 

To the Lord our God belong compassions and forgivenesses; for we have rebelled against Him; neither have we hearkened to the voice of YeHoWaH our God, to walk in His laws, which He set before us by His servants the prophets. Yea, all Israel have transgressed Thy law, and have turned aside, so as not to hearken to Thy voice; and so there hath been poured out upon us the curse and the oath that is written in the Law of Moses the servant of God; for we have sinned against Him. And He hath confirmed His word, which He spoke against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil; so that under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem. As it is written in the Law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us; yet have we not entreated the favour of YeHoWaH our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and have discernment in Thy truth. (Daniel 9:9-13)

 

(3:22) Remember ye the law of Moses My servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, even statutes and ordinances. (3:23) Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of YeHoWaH. (3:24) And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers; lest I come and smite the land with utter destruction. (Malachi 4:4-6)

 

Only be strong and very courageous, to observe to do according to all the law, which Moses My servant commanded thee; turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest have good success whithersoever thou goest.
(Joshua 1:7)

 

We are commanded to observe and obey all the law of Moses. Moses wrote all the law which YeHoWaH gave to him, in the book of the law, the written Torah. We have no need of any other books. The oral Torah adds to that law, the oral Torah is not the law of Moses, it may contain the laws of Moses, but it has the law of man added to it, and is not the Torah which YeHoWaH gave to Moses, which Moses wrote for all the children of Israel to read and hear.

 

The judges of Israel are commanded to judge in righteous judgement according to what is written in the law of Moses. They have not been commanded to add to that law or to judge according to the added laws of man.

 

May YeHoWaH be with us and open our eyes to see His truth, which is written in the Torah and in the Tanakh by His prophets.

 

Shalom and Blessings,

Sandra.

Anders Branderud said:

Shalom Sandra!

 

Thank you for be willing to listen to the arguments about mishpat! You have been brave and left many false doctrines not in accordance with the Tan''kh in your past; and I am hoping that you – and everyone else reading this - are willing to examine this with an open mind to what the Tan’’kh has to say.

 

We who have a desire to serve the Creator should not come with any assumptions, or pre-conceived notions – but study what the text in Tan’’kh says according to etymological Hebrew.

 

If there is anything that anyone of you all doesn’t understand after you have read this carefully and also clicked on the links, which provides definitions of certain words, then please ask me!!

 

Please understand that all of these Hebrew words in the below text are essential to understand. When I started to study Hebrew – according to its meaning in etymology - I realized that many definitions of words differ from what is written in a Christian ‘translation’. The following text will both contain quotations from the Tan’’kh and some other essential text.

 

 

I added this to myprevious post [here is a corrected version; there was an error in my previouspost:]

I am not talking aboutsome rabbinic degree which exceeds Torah and logical mishpat; what I am talkingabove you can find below.  

Before explaining mishpat I want to add this: Yes, there is indeed much proclaiming to be ‘oral Torah’ exceeding Torah and the real-world historical and logical mishpat. Some of these are the definition of melakhah, which contradicts the ancient Tan’’kh-definition [2]; and the prohibition of using electricity on Shabat [3].

Furthermore there is a prohibition inTorah for men to shave their beard, which one can learn from the real-world historical and logical mishpat, that it meant one is prohibited to shave below a specified minimum length [4]. Yet, some leaders teach that one is allowed to remove all of ones beard with certain methods, in clear contradiction to Torah [4].

Just as legislation is of no value unless it is enforced, so too, if Torah is not implemented it remains mere hypothetical theory. Just as legislation must be interpreted and implemented by competent courts in actual cases to keep the law from being perverted, so too, Torah if not implemented as Mosheh communicated it at Har Sinai then it is perverted.

 

"You shall provide Shophtim [to staff the Batei-Din] and shotrim in all of your gates, which ha-Sheim your Elohim gives you, for all of the tribes of your kindred; and they shall shâphat the kindred in tzedeq  of mishpat (Devarim [‘Deuteronomy’] 16.18).

 

Mosheh stated clearly that the mishpat of the Shophtim of the Batei-Din "is Elohim’s mishpat " (Devarim 1.17). Thus, ha-Sheim calls the mishpatim of the Batei-Din "My mishpatim."

 

Moreover, by commanding the observance of "My mishpatim " in written Torah, י--ה     makes keeping the mishpâtim an integral part of written Torâh:

 

"You shall make/do My mishpâtim andyou shall be shomeir of My khuqim,to holëkh inthem; I am י--ה   your Ëlohim"(wa-Yiqrâ[’Leviticus’] 18.4).

 

Though made by human Shophtim ofthe Batei-Din,"From י--ה is the mishpât-איש (ish; of the man)." (Mishlei Shlomoh [‘Proverbs’] 29.26).

 

Continuing the Patriarchal example of Avrâhâm, Yitzkhaq, and Ya’aqov that was promulgated by the Twelve Tribal chiefs and their successors, Mosheh compiled their corpus of case law, unbroken even while under bondage to the Parohs in Mitzrayim:

 

"And Mosheh sat to adjudicate mishpat for the kindred" (Shemot [’Exodus’] 18.13).

When the burden became too much for one man, Mosheh delegated some of his judicial powers to appointed "Sarim of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties, and of tens"

(Shemot 18.21; Devarim [’Deuteronomy’] 1.17) reserving jurisdiction for himself only over the most difficult, major, and nationally significant issues (Shemot 18.22, 26; Devarim 1.17). This is establishment of the institution of the Beit-Din system.

 

When Benei-Israel settled in Eretz Israel, the allocation of jurisdiction on a purely numerical basis (thousands, hundreds, etc.) was to be replaced by allocation on a local basis throughout the Twelve Tribes. Shophtim were to be appointed to a Beit-Din inevery village, convened in the Name of י--ה in the village gate – the place designated by י--ה in addition to the Beit-Din ha-Jadol located in the Mishkân or,later, the Beit ha-Miqdâsh [’temple’].

 

"When there shall arise an unprecedented matter among you requiring a mishpat … you shall arise and go up to the place that י--ה your Elohim shall choose. Having come to the Kohanim, the Leviyim orthe Shophtim [ofthe Beit-Din] which shall be in those days, seek and they shall relate to you the mishpât ofthe case. With respect to this case, you shall do as they tell you from the place which י--ה shall choose. You shall be shomeir todo everything which they shall morâh you, according to the Torâh that they shall morâh you and you shall do according to the mishpât that they shall tell you. You shall not deviate left nor right from the case as theyrelate it to you. The man who acts presumptuously, to neglect to Shema tothe Kohein who stands ministering to י--ה your Ëlohim there,or to the shopheit [of the Beit-Din],that man shall die. You shall burn out this evil from Israel." (Devârim  [’Deuteronomy’] 17.8-13).

 

Thus, Torah requires Jews to appoint Shophtim of the Beit-Din in every generation who will decide the mishpâtim that accumulate over the centuries – Halakhah (i.e. oral Torah). Those who reject Halakhah therefore, are rejecting the written Tan’’kh, relying on men – and their institutions rather than the written Tan’’kh.

 

The interpretations arising from the implementation of Torâh in real life cases make up the corpus of case law mishpâtim handed down by Batei-Din – Halâkhâh.” [1]

 

These are only some of the 450 admonitions in the written Tan’’kh to obey mishpatim and khuqim.

 

 Notes:

1. Adapted from Who arethe Netzarim; www.netzarim.co.il; Israel Mall (leftmenu); then click on ‘Netzarim’ (bottom menu)

2. http://bloganders.blogspot.com/2010/06/shabat-and-what-constitutes-...

3. http://bloganders.blogspot.com/2010/06/using-electricity-on-shabat....

4. http://bloganders.blogspot.com/2010/07/according-to-torah-books-of-...

 

Have a nice day and I wish shalom to you all!

 

1. Adapted from Who are the Netzarim; www.netzarim.co.il; Israel Mall (left menu); then click on ‘Netzarim’ (bottom menu)

 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Anders Branderud on January 6, 2011 at 2:58am

Shalom Sandra and Sinai servant!

I want clarify to you and to all whom are reading that I put all of this time writing only because I care for you and want your best! I desire of me, you and all of mankind that we should observe the Torah of the Creator – Blessed is He!

I see that you both rely on a translation. Please remember that the JPS-translation is far from perfect; and that we all are required to learn Hebrew grammar and look up the definitions of words in an etymological dictionary to get the correct definitions.

The meaning of many words have changed since the time they were written down; and it is important to learn the original meaning in order to understand the Tan’’kh. Some of these etymological definitions are found in the website of www.netzarim.co.il ; click on “Glossaries” in the main page. And they are also available in the different ‘Parashat ha-Shavua’ found in the Calender-section of the same website (in the left menu).

I also recommend ‘A comphrensive Etymological Dictionary of the Hebrew language for English readers’ by Ernest Klein

There is plenty I could comment on, but I will only give some comments in this post.

Sinai servant wrote: “dumped from a website because I won't consider the oral law or the traditions of man as binding and legal and equal with Torah –”

I was not talking about traditions of men, but about mishpat with a formal logical connection to a mitzwah [military-style order or directive] decided by a shopheit – i.e. a judge of a beit din. See the quotes in my previous post. For example, many leaders say electricity is forbidden to use on Shabbat. However, this has no formal logical connection to any mitzwah of the written Torah. Thus, it constitutes an forbidden addition to the written Torah – Devarim [‘Deuteronomy’] 4:2 and 13:1 in Hebrew.

Sinai servant, you quoted ‘Ex 24:3-4’. Verse 3 speaks about ‘mishpat’ and I demonstrate below that all of the mishpatim are not written down in the Torah. If you read my last paragraph of this post, you’ll find an example of an mishpat-decision –i.e. the decision of how an mitzwah in the written Torah should be applied - that is not written down in the Torah.

As I quoted in my previous post:
“While oral Torah will always be continually adapting to new technology, conditions and situations, the written Torah is complete (Tehil•im′ [’Psalm] 91:8). Contrary to some rabbinic assertions, their attempts to alter the written Torah are prohibited by written Torah (e.g., Dәvâr•im′ 27:3,8; 31:24; 4:1-2; 13:1; Shәm•ot′ 24:4; Yәsha•yâh′u 29:13 & Mishlei′ Shәlomoh [’Proverbs’].”

As I demonstrated with my previous quote there will be shopheitim – judges of a beit din – who will decide mishpat in each generation -- [see Devarim ’Deuteronomy’] 17.8-13 from my previous post).

Sinai Servant, you mention Devarim 31:9. Please note that in verse 12 it says ‘speakings’, it doesn’t say words. They were to be careful to observe all of the speakings of the Torah. In Devarim [’Deuteronomy’] 32:7 it says ‘ask your zaqein.

However, few persons understand what this means. The meaning of the word in plurals is: ‘seniors, elders who adjudicated in a Beit-Din, synonym of Shophәt•im′ (though zeqeinim may also sometimes refer to tribal leaders).’

Furthermore, even more quotes that corroborate that the Creator requires of us to observe the mishpat-decision of how a mitzwah should be applied:

”The authority of halakhic mishpât carries the full weight of י--ה: "for the mishpât it is Ëlohim's" (Devârim 1.17). "Shema Israel to the khuqim and mishpâtim…!" (Devarim 5.1). The curse beginning in wa-Yiqrâ 26.14 is popularly thought to apply only to those who reject written Torah. However, the curse applies to those who reject mishpât: "…or if your nëphësh abhor My mishpâtim…" (wa-Yiqrâ ['Leviticus'] 26.15).”

Do you all follow me? The word mishpat is not logical equivalent with a written mitzwah – directive of Torah.

A mishpat is the decision by a beit-din of how a certain mitzwah of Torah should be practised! It is not an addition, nor is it a subtraction, to the written Torah, which we all know is forbidden according to Devarim 4:2, 13:1, et.al.

Do you follow me?

I will end this post with an example.
Shekhitâh′ ; slaughter according to Tor•âh′ standards, i.e. kâsheir [‘proper’] slaughter by a shokheit′ (kâ•sheir′ butcher).

Many persons would say that Torah doesn’t specify how to slaughter the animal. Is this really true? Would it be an addition to Torah to say that the animal must be slaughtered in a special way?

I hope you are patient and want to read for a little more while since this is very important!! Thanks! I write this and clarify this for all of your best! If there are any word you don’t understand, then there is ‘glossaries’ available on the website of www.netzarim.co.il in the main page.

“Devarim 12.8— Should the reader make up his own mind regarding how to worship י--ה, how to interpret the Tan"kh and the like? According to this passage, this was prohibited when the Jews entered the land in the time of Yehoshua Bën-Nun. And what was the instruction then? 'You shall not do everything like we are doing it here today, whatever is right in a man's own eyes."

Rather, Shophtim were to be appointed in every generation (Devarim [‘Deuteronomy’] 16.18; 17.9-13) and their mishpatim of these batei-din accumulated in the corpus of Oral Law that would serve as precedent for future legal decisions in the application of the khuqim′. From that point, the application of this legal system would guide those who seek to pray to י--ה.

Devarim 12.14-15 & 21— In addition to the other laws of kashrut, must meat be slaughtered according to the laws of שחיטה (shәkhit•âh′) in order to be kasheir [“kosher”] for eating?

In verse 14, in the discussion of qorbanot [‘sacrifices’] on Har ha-Ba′yit [’temple mount’] in Yerushalayim, we find the phrase "and there you shall do all that I-Myself tziwâh′ [3] you", implying mitzwot given with respect to the method of slaughter of the qorbânot′—a mitzwah known to have existed from other documentation. Moreover, this is further implied in the next verse when speaking of preparing and eating meat not-for-qorbân′ outside of Yәrushâlayim in the phrase תזבח (tizbakh; you may slaughter-according-to-sacrificial-laws; i.e., according to shekhitâh′) and eat the meat according to the blessing of י--ה your Ëlohim′ that He has given you."
The Hebrew term זבח (zâvakh; slaughter according to ritual qor•bân′), from which תזבח derived, is usually shortened in English simply to "sacrifice." Its rendering here simply as "slaughter," however, is misleading in its ambiguity because it fails to notify the reader unfamiliar with Hebrew of its association with sacrificial slaughter.

This is further confirmed in verse 21: "If the place where י--ה your Ëlohim′ has chosen to place His Name [i.e. the Beit-ha-Mi•qәdâsh′ [‘temple’] on Har ha-Bayit [‘temple mount’] in Yerushâlayim], be too distant from you, then you may zâvakh from your herds or your flocks that י--ה has given you according as I tziw•âh′ [3] to the consent of your nephâsh•ot′ (i.e., to your heart's content)."

Since the qorbânot′ themselves were always prohibited outside of Har ha-Ba′yit, this can only refer to the method of slaughter according to the same laws that applied to the ritual slaughtering of sacrificial animals—shekhit•âh′. shokheit is a cognate.

The slaughter was not to be done in any other way, but only in accordance with the laws governing the slaughter of sacrificial animals that is referred to above as "the blessing of י--ה your Ël•oh•im′ that He has given you" and "according as I tziw•âh [3]′." While these laws are documented from antiquity, they are found only in Halâkhâh′.” [2]
Did you follow?


1.Quote from: from Who are the Netzarim; www.netzarim.co.il; Israel Mall (left menu); then click on ‘Netzarim’ (bottom menu)
2.Quote from the above website
3.From the verb tzi•wâh′; he commanded as a Mitz•wâh′

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Sinai Servant on January 6, 2011 at 3:02pm

Shalom Anders, thanks for the reply. I just wanted to clarify a couple of points. I personally do not rely on any translation. I have a JPS, Stones a Hebrew KJV but favor none. What do you use? At best they all are flawed and are translated or transliterated with a bias. If someone knows of a perfect translation I would love to hear about it.

 

I am trying to teach myself Hebrew (hard going) and use a good etymological dictionary amongst other tools. Because of this fact I can easily agree with your findings. I realize that words have changed in their meanings and use over time and like you say, we need to check the roots of these words. It must also be remembered that the authors of etymological dictionaries are far from perfect and require scrutiny and cross checking. Being as there is no longer any originals of the Torah, we can only do the best we can with what is available.

 

You said: As I demonstrated with my previous quote there will be shopheitim – judges of a beit din – who will decide mishpat in each generation -- [see Devarim ’Deuteronomy’] 17.8-13 from my previous post). After looking at this closely I agree. Again you said: Sinai Servant, you mention Devarim 31:9. Please note that in verse 12 it says ‘speakings’, it doesn’t say words. They were to be careful to observe all of the speakings of the Torah. In Devarim [’Deuteronomy’] 32:7 it says ‘ask your zaqein. I agree with this also, but my point was that their rulings must not contradict the written Torah.

 

You state: A mishpat is the decision by a beit-din of how a certain mitzwah of Torah should be practised! It is not an addition, nor is it a subtraction, to the written Torah, which we all know is forbidden according to Devarim 4:2, 13:1, et.al.

Do you follow me? Yes I follow you and agree as long as the “elder” does not go beyond what is written and that his life and conduct reflect dedication to the truth and not traditions. We all have to safe-guard ourselves because none of us is perfect. How many of the shophtim have not been affected by what we know as “traditional Judaism”? I am not ant Judaism or anti tradition, just anti addition. I think we are on the same page here. I enjoyed your post and applaud your efforts. You have left me much to reflect upon.

 

Sinai Servant

Anders Branderud said:

Shalom Sandra and Sinai servant!

I want clarify to you and to all whom are reading that I put all of this time writing only because I care for you and want your best! I desire of me, you and all of mankind that we should observe the Torah of the Creator – Blessed is He!

I see that you both rely on a translation. Please remember that the JPS-translation is far from perfect; and that we all are required to learn Hebrew grammar and look up the definitions of words in an etymological dictionary to get the correct definitions.

The meaning of many words have changed since the time they were written down; and it is important to learn the original meaning in order to understand the Tan’’kh. Some of these etymological definitions are found in the website of www.netzarim.co.il ; click on “Glossaries” in the main page. And they are also available in the different ‘Parashat ha-Shavua’ found in the Calender-section of the same website (in the left menu).

I also recommend ‘A comphrensive Etymological Dictionary of the Hebrew language for English readers’ by Ernest Klein

There is plenty I could comment on, but I will only give some comments in this post.

Sinai servant wrote: “dumped from a website because I won't consider the oral law or the traditions of man as binding and legal and equal with Torah –”

I was not talking about traditions of men, but about mishpat with a formal logical connection to a mitzwah [military-style order or directive] decided by a shopheit – i.e. a judge of a beit din. See the quotes in my previous post. For example, many leaders say electricity is forbidden to use on Shabbat. However, this has no formal logical connection to any mitzwah of the written Torah. Thus, it constitutes an forbidden addition to the written Torah – Devarim [‘Deuteronomy’] 4:2 and 13:1 in Hebrew.

Sinai servant, you quoted ‘Ex 24:3-4’. Verse 3 speaks about ‘mishpat’ and I demonstrate below that all of the mishpatim are not written down in the Torah. If you read my last paragraph of this post, you’ll find an example of an mishpat-decision –i.e. the decision of how an mitzwah in the written Torah should be applied - that is not written down in the Torah.

As I quoted in my previous post:
“While oral Torah will always be continually adapting to new technology, conditions and situations, the written Torah is complete (Tehil•im′ [’Psalm] 91:8). Contrary to some rabbinic assertions, their attempts to alter the written Torah are prohibited by written Torah (e.g., Dәvâr•im′ 27:3,8; 31:24; 4:1-2; 13:1; Shәm•ot′ 24:4; Yәsha•yâh′u 29:13 & Mishlei′ Shәlomoh [’Proverbs’].”

As I demonstrated with my previous quote there will be shopheitim – judges of a beit din – who will decide mishpat in each generation -- [see Devarim ’Deuteronomy’] 17.8-13 from my previous post).

Sinai Servant, you mention Devarim 31:9. Please note that in verse 12 it says ‘speakings’, it doesn’t say words. They were to be careful to observe all of the speakings of the Torah. In Devarim [’Deuteronomy’] 32:7 it says ‘ask your zaqein.

However, few persons understand what this means. The meaning of the word in plurals is: ‘seniors, elders who adjudicated in a Beit-Din, synonym of Shophәt•im′ (though zeqeinim may also sometimes refer to tribal leaders).’

Furthermore, even more quotes that corroborate that the Creator requires of us to observe the mishpat-decision of how a mitzwah should be applied:

”The authority of halakhic mishpât carries the full weight of י--ה: "for the mishpât it is Ëlohim's" (Devârim 1.17). "Shema Israel to the khuqim and mishpâtim…!" (Devarim 5.1). The curse beginning in wa-Yiqrâ 26.14 is popularly thought to apply only to those who reject written Torah. However, the curse applies to those who reject mishpât: "…or if your nëphësh abhor My mishpâtim…" (wa-Yiqrâ ['Leviticus'] 26.15).”

Do you all follow me? The word mishpat is not logical equivalent with a written mitzwah – directive of Torah.

A mishpat is the decision by a beit-din of how a certain mitzwah of Torah should be practised! It is not an addition, nor is it a subtraction, to the written Torah, which we all know is forbidden according to Devarim 4:2, 13:1, et.al.

Do you follow me?

I will end this post with an example.
Shekhitâh′ ; slaughter according to Tor•âh′ standards, i.e. kâsheir [‘proper’] slaughter by a shokheit′ (kâ•sheir′ butcher).

Many persons would say that Torah doesn’t specify how to slaughter the animal. Is this really true? Would it be an addition to Torah to say that the animal must be slaughtered in a special way?

I hope you are patient and want to read for a little more while since this is very important!! Thanks! I write this and clarify this for all of your best! If there are any word you don’t understand, then there is ‘glossaries’ available on the website of www.netzarim.co.il in the main page.

“Devarim 12.8— Should the reader make up his own mind regarding how to worship י--ה, how to interpret the Tan"kh and the like? According to this passage, this was prohibited when the Jews entered the land in the time of Yehoshua Bën-Nun. And what was the instruction then? 'You shall not do everything like we are doing it here today, whatever is right in a man's own eyes."

Rather, Shophtim were to be appointed in every generation (Devarim [‘Deuteronomy’] 16.18; 17.9-13) and their mishpatim of these batei-din accumulated in the corpus of Oral Law that would serve as precedent for future legal decisions in the application of the khuqim′. From that point, the application of this legal system would guide those who seek to pray to י--ה.

Devarim 12.14-15 & 21— In addition to the other laws of kashrut, must meat be slaughtered according to the laws of שחיטה (shәkhit•âh′) in order to be kasheir [“kosher”] for eating?

In verse 14, in the discussion of qorbanot [‘sacrifices’] on Har ha-Ba′yit [’temple mount’] in Yerushalayim, we find the phrase "and there you shall do all that I-Myself tziwâh′ [3] you", implying mitzwot given with respect to the method of slaughter of the qorbânot′—a mitzwah known to have existed from other documentation. Moreover, this is further implied in the next verse when speaking of preparing and eating meat not-for-qorbân′ outside of Yәrushâlayim in the phrase תזבח (tizbakh; you may slaughter-according-to-sacrificial-laws; i.e., according to shekhitâh′) and eat the meat according to the blessing of י--ה your Ëlohim′ that He has given you."
The Hebrew term זבח (zâvakh; slaughter according to ritual qor•bân′), from which תזבח derived, is usually shortened in English simply to "sacrifice." Its rendering here simply as "slaughter," however, is misleading in its ambiguity because it fails to notify the reader unfamiliar with Hebrew of its association with sacrificial slaughter.

This is further confirmed in verse 21: "If the place where י--ה your Ëlohim′ has chosen to place His Name [i.e. the Beit-ha-Mi•qәdâsh′ [‘temple’] on Har ha-Bayit [‘temple mount’] in Yerushâlayim], be too distant from you, then you may zâvakh from your herds or your flocks that י--ה has given you according as I tziw•âh′ [3] to the consent of your nephâsh•ot′ (i.e., to your heart's content)."

Since the qorbânot′ themselves were always prohibited outside of Har ha-Ba′yit, this can only refer to the method of slaughter according to the same laws that applied to the ritual slaughtering of sacrificial animals—shekhit•âh′. shokheit is a cognate.

The slaughter was not to be done in any other way, but only in accordance with the laws governing the slaughter of sacrificial animals that is referred to above as "the blessing of י--ה your Ël•oh•im′ that He has given you" and "according as I tziw•âh [3]′." While these laws are documented from antiquity, they are found only in Halâkhâh′.” [2]
Did you follow?


1.Quote from: from Who are the Netzarim; www.netzarim.co.il; Israel Mall (left menu); then click on ‘Netzarim’ (bottom menu)
2.Quote from the above website
3.From the verb tzi•wâh′; he commanded as a Mitz•wâh′

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Anders Branderud on January 8, 2011 at 9:47am

Sinai Servant and to everyone else,

Shalom!

 

Better to know oneword in Hebrew than…

First of all it is great that you are trying to teach yourself Hebrew and to use a good etymological dictionary! Yes, the authors of those dictionaries are not perfect; and to find out meanings of Hebrew words we can also look up all instances of a certain word in Tana’’ch.

 

It is better to know one word in Hebrew, than to know a faulty English‘translation’ by heart. Many Christians for example have read a ‘translation’of the Tana’’ch, but still don’t understand that the Creator requires of themto observe the directive of Torah non-selectively to their utmost [note 1] –i.e. many more than the ‘seven laws of Noah’. A lot of non-Christian have reada translation of the Tana’’ch, but still don’t understand that the Creator requires of them to keep mishpat, and what mishpat is.

 

Agreement about the role of shophtim – judges of a Judaic court

Okay, it is great that we agree! The zaqein – the elder who adjudicates in a Beit-Din [Judaic court] – don’t have authority to add directives to and/or subtract directives from Torah in making mishpatim –i.e. judgments of a beit din of how the directives of the written Torah should be observed – that are exceeding Devarim 4:2.

 

Yes, so we agree in that shophtim are forbidden to add to and/or subtract from the Torah. I am happy that you enjoyed my posts and that I left you with much to reflect on!

 

You are asking: “How many of the shophtim have not been affected by what we know as “traditional Judaism”?”

 

Torah including logical Halakhah requiresof you to subordinate to a beit-din [2]. A beit-din is led by shophtim – or one shopheit [i.e. judge of a beit-din] in extenuating cases – who are doing their/his utmost to decide mishpatim, which are not adding to and/or subtracting from the written Torah.One beit din is the beit-din ha Netzarim led by Paqid Yirmeyahu Ben Dawid in Ra’anana in Israel. Itendorse Torah including real-world historical and logical Halakhah (= mishpat) and doesn’t endorse addition to and/or subtractions from Torah including mishpat. [2]

 

I endorse you and everyone else reading this to do what the Creator requires of you and subordinate to a beit din operating inside of the legitimate Jewish community. And if you don’t agree, then please don’t assume that you are correct, but study the resources that I have recommended –see note 2 – and you will find out that this is indeed what the Creator requires of you according to Torah including real-world historicaland logical Halakhah (= mishpat).

 

Studying Hebrew

You teach yourself Hebrew, however in your previous writings you wrote: “Any writings outside of the Tanakh are merely commentary and extra Biblical compilations and are not authoritative nor are they worthy of being given equal standing. (..) “

 

KeepOral Torah??

It seems to me that you didn’t understand the significance of the word mishpat and that the Creator obligates mankind to observe it! I demonstrated in my last post that the written Torah requires thatthe animal must be slaughtered in a certain way. You will not find this method in the written Torah. However, the method of slaughtering an animal is not an addition to Torah (Devarim [‘Deuteronomy’] 4:2, 13:1, et.al), but it is included in mishpat, which HaSheim requires of mankind to follow in His Torah.

 

My point of bringing this up is just to clarify to youand everyone else, that since you didn’t know about this; there are also other directives of the Torah, which you don’t know how to observe correctly, since you haven’t studied real-world historical and logical Halakhah.

 

Hebraic resource

I use the Hebraic resources I recommended in myprevious post. In the end of my previous post, you will find the source I used for the quotes. The point is that I don’t rely on a translation. I often usethe etymological dictionary I recommended to check up the definition of a word. The different Parashat ha-Shavua on the website of Netzarim -in Ra’anana in Israel –theonly legitimate Netzarim - proves that many translations made by Jews andChristians are erroneous. I don’t rely on this translation either, but do mybest to learn the Hebrew of  Tana''ch; and have learned much during the last more than 3,5 years. You won’t find a better translation on the web than the translations of many verses from  on the Netzarim-website. Yet, we all must learn Hebrew, and not rely on that translation of Tana''ch either.

 

I hope this was helpful to you all and that you allwill study the sources I have recommended; and implement the directive whichthe Creator requires in His Torah, including to subordinate to a beit-din witha connection to the the legitimate Jewish community! This is in fact one of the initial steps everyone desiring to observe Torah must take! [3]

 

I will be happy to receive your comments to that whichI wrote above

 

Notes

1. Documentation in this link on my blog:  Link

 

2. Further documentation on Atonement in the Biblical New Covenant;  Avaiable on Schueller House;and some documentation on www.netzarim.co.il ; Glossaries [available on the mainpage]; Beit-Din; also Glossaries; Geir

 

3. Read further documentation on www.netzarim.co.il ; “History Museum” (left menu); Benei Noah

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