Contradictions and historical errors in the Christian letters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogy_of_Jesus#Omissions
Why were there four people left out of this record when they copied it from the Tanakh ?
Why were there four people left out of this record when they copied it from the Tanakh ?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Allen on -
"To err is human"
"SHOCKER" ..... The "New testament" is not the living word of G-d. It is a collection of well intentioned mens words which strives to convey the essence of the original.
Most of us have heard or read the story of how peoples minds distort facts easily. Example...
The black and white spotted cow is grazing in the farmers field.
Thirty years and many people later we might end up with something like...
The black bull with the red snout is shooing away flies with his tail in the barn.
I have witnessed this in action many times. A simple set of facts is distorted.. a mere glimpse of the reality.
I have seen such things distorted within a 5 minute span after passing through ten people whispering into the next persons ear what they heard.
This can also account for why there are not two "New Testament" writings which are exatly the same.
In defence of the writers of Matthew and Luke who attempted to show a physical lineage with Melech David. We see that not only are they attempting to substantiate a lineage, but they are also establishing that Yah'shua (Jesus) was a man, descended of men and that he was not of divine origin as the Catholic church made him out to be a thousand or so years ago.
Shalom,
Allen
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Permalink Reply by Earth White Horse on -
This theology site says that The writer/(writers?) decided that the number 14 was the ideal for structural symmetry .
So they just whittled away until the number came out correct.
http://www.theology.edu/ap10.htm
Great response .Thank you.
Allen said:"To err is human"
"SHOCKER" ..... The "New testament" is not the living word of G-d. It is a collection of well intentioned mens words which strives to convey the essence of the original.
Most of us have heard or read the story of how peoples minds distort facts easily. Example...
The black and white spotted cow is grazing in the farmers field.
Thirty years and many people later we might end up with something like...
The black bull with the red snout is shooing away flies with his tail in the barn.
I have witnessed this in action many times. A simple set of facts is distorted.. a mere glimpse of the reality.
I have seen such things distorted within a 5 minute span after passing through ten people whispering into the next persons ear what they heard.
This can also account for why there are not two "New Testament" writings which are exatly the same.
In defence of the writers of Matthew and Luke who attempted to show a physical lineage with Melech David. We see that not only are they attempting to substantiate a lineage, but they are also establishing that Yah'shua (Jesus) was a man, descended of men and that he was not of divine origin as the Catholic church made him out to be a thousand or so years ago.
Shalom,
Allen
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Permalink Reply by Earth White Horse on
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Eretzsus lavan said:This theology site says that The writer/(writers?) decided that the number 14 was the ideal for structural symmetry .
So they just whittled away until the number came out correct.
http://www.theology.edu/ap10.htm
Great response .Thank you.
I guess the most profound evidence for this letter being a fabrication of details is Matthew 1:8.
" Jehoram , THE FATHER of uzziah" , the writers could have just said "GREAT-GRANDFATHER", and that would explain the missing gap in the generations from 2 Chronicles 26:1, Uzziah's actual father is AMAZIAH. The writer decided to just go ahead and force the 14 generations instead of keeping the original 18, which is a much better Jewish number by far.IT IS REPEATED AGAIN IN MATTHEW 1:11 SO IT WAS NOT AN HONEST MISTAKE.
In the last 2 sets of 14 one man JECONIAH is counted twice , giving the last set of 14 only a 13 count because Jeconiah was already counted from the previous set.
The 14 generation historical symmetry is really being forced beyond recognition as spiritual truth.
Shalom
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Permalink Reply by Earth White Horse on
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People always love to discuss this issue.
Was Jesus born before 4 BCE, as it can be deduced from Matthew 2:1, or was Jesus born after 6 CE, as Luke suggests in Luke 2:1??
Here are the verses from the gospels (King James Version):
Matthew 2:1
"Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem..."
You just need to go find in history when did King Herod live. Although I'm sure you can find it elsewhere, Wikipedia is a very reliable source, so if you look it up, you can find that Herod the Great died in 4 BCE (although other sources point to 1 BCE, but this shouldn't make a big difference since Jesus was born when Herod was still alive, which means his birth happened before 1 BCE). Herod the Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Luke 2:1-2
"1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed.
2 (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)"
And we all know that this Census was the reason for Joseph and Mary to go to Bethlehem and then Jesus was born there. So, let's apply the same criteria here and go to history to figure out when this Census happened. And Luke clearly gives hints about this by mentioning that this happened "when Cyrenius was governor of Syria". So, let's go to Wikipedia one more time, and we can find that this census happened in the year 6 or 7 CE. Census of Quirinius - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So, clearly these two gospels are contradicting each other.
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Permalink Reply by Earth White Horse on
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The Gospels tell us that Jesus's home town was the 'City of Nazareth'
And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a CITY of Galilee, named Nazareth, To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.
(Luke1.26,27)
And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the CITY of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; because he was of the house and lineage of David:
(Luke 2.3,4)
But when he heard that Archelaus did reign in Judaea in the room of his father Herod, he was afraid to go thither: notwithstanding, being warned of God in a dream, he turned aside into the parts of Galilee: And he came and dwelt in a CITY called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.
(Matthew 2.22,23)
And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own CITY Nazareth. And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
(Luke 2.39,40)
The gospels do not tell us much about this 'city' – it has a synagogue, it can scare up a hostile crowd (prompting JC's famous "prophet rejected in his own land" quote), and it has a precipice – but the city status of Nazareth is clearly established, at least according to the Christian letters.
However when we look for historical confirmation of this hometown of a god – surprise, surprise! – no other source confirms that the place even existed in the 1st century AD.
• Nazareth is not mentioned even once in the entire Old Testament. The Book of Joshua (19.10,16) – in what it claims is the process of settlement by the tribe of Zebulon in the area – records twelve towns and six villages and yet omits any 'Nazareth' from its list.
• The Talmud, although it names 63 Galilean towns, knows nothing of Nazareth, nor does early rabbinic literature.
• St Paul knows nothing of 'Nazareth'. Rabbi Solly's epistles (real and fake) mention Jesus 221 times, Nazareth not at all.
• No ancient historian or geographer mentions Nazareth. It is first noted at the beginning of the 4th century.
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Permalink Reply by Earth White Horse on
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You may possibly be interested in this information.
Maybe through your religious training, you may have come across the idea that Christianity is Egyptian based in it's theology.
Here are a few scholarly sources .
I have mostly been hearing that Prof.Budge was a crackpot, yet I find his research sourced in lots of scholarly works.
I can find piles of his books in any new or used book store.He is not the first and certainly won't be the last either.
* Horus was born on "December 25th" (winter solstice) in a manger.The festival of Osiris is celebrated in the Egyptian month of Koiak from the 12th to the 30th. This is related to the death burial and resurrection.
It is the winter solstice.
Christian COPTS use a calendar based on the ancient Egyptian solar calender...but with LEAP YEARS.
KOIAK 29 is December 25th or 26th on the JULIAN Calendar.
Calendrical Calculation, Cambridge University press,London
2007 p.73-77
* He was of royal descent, and his mother was the "virgin Isis-Mery."
(Isis ,like the goddess Neith of Sais was declared to possess
PERPETUAL VIRGINITY "
Dr. E.A. Wallis Budge (Catholic scholar ) , Keeper of Assyrian and Egyptian antiquities
of the British museum.He wrote this quote in his book "The Gods of Egypt"
"Isis , the mother of Horus as known by the title , Mother of god, Immaculate VIRGIN..." William Williamson, The great law, a study of religious origins page 26
" The Egyptian goddess who was equally the GREAT VIRGIN and mother of god was the object of the very same praise bestowed upon her successor , Mary, the virgin mother of Jesus. "
Dr. R.E.Witt, Isis in the ancient world page 273
" Virgin Isis worship was trasferred to the virgin Mary by the Collyridions and Marians before the council of Nicea "
Egytian Belief and Modern thought by James Bonwick ( Baptist scholar ) p. 147
* Horus's birth was announced by a star in the East and attended by three "wise men."
* At age 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized.
found on papyrus DCIV
'When Si-Osiris was 12 years old he was wiser than the wisest of the scribes" Folk-lore, p.498
12/30 represents the 12 signs of the zodiac and the 30 days in 12 months.
Heroditus, George Rawlinson 1862 p.3-4.
* Horus was baptized by "Anup the Baptizer," who was decapitated.
ANUBIS ALSO SHARES WITH HORUS THE ROLE OF PURIFIER/BAPTIZER
ANCIENT EGYPTIAN PYRAMID TEXTS,RAYMOND FAULKNER ,1973 P.152
* The Egyptian god had 12 companions, helpers or disciples.
* Horus was "crucified" between two "thieves."
(Mark did not know that thieves were never crucified in Judea " historically this never occurred .
Illuminate of Gorlitz or Jakob Bohme's Life and Philosophy,Part 3,Kessinger 2003 by H. Vetterling
" In the Zodiac of Denderah,Just where Horus is on the cross, or at the crossing of the vernal equinox,these two thieves, Sut-Anup and Aan are depicted one on either side of the Luni solar god. These two mythical originals have been continued and humanised as the two thieves in the gospel version of the crucifixion )
* He (or Osiris) was buried for three days and resurrected.
(...the solemn morning for the god Osiris was 3 days and 3 nights in the waters before he was restored to life again "The American Journal of Theology ( XX, 5 )
* Horus/Osiris was also the "Way, the Truth, the Life," "Messiah," the "Son of Man," the "Good Shepherd," the "Lamb of God," the "Word made flesh," the "Word of Truth," etc.(Horus/Osiris was also the "Way, the Truth, the Life," "Messiah," the "Son of Man," the "Good Shepherd.
Horus's ' Good Shepard role is made clear in the Pyramid Texts (PT) 690:2106a-b/N 524.
In Book of the Dead appears a long " List of the forms and shrines of Osiris " with over 140 epithets for the god,including " Protector" or " SHEPARD "- Asar-saa.
The book of the dead ,Thomas allen 1974 118-119 )
* Horus's personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of the Father. He was called "Holy Child," as well as "the Anointed One," while Osiris was the KRST.
* Horus battled with the "evil one," Set/Seth.
Horus enthroned before the Twelve,
Seventh Hour of the Amduat.
(Erik Hornung, The Ancient Egyptian Books of the Afterlife, 48)
AS TO THE DUODECAD,IT IS INDICATED BY THE ZODIACAL CIRCLE,AS IT IS CALLED ; FOR THEY AFFIRM THAT THE 12 SIGNS DO MOSTLY MANIFESTLY SHADOW FORTH THE DUODECAD, THE DAUGHTER OF ANTHROPIS AND ECCLESIA. AND SINCE THE HIGHEST HEAVEN , BEATING UPON THE VERY SPHERE OF THE SEVENTH HEAVEN,.... SO THAT IT COMPLETES A CYCLE FROM SIGN TO SIGN IN 30 YEARS, - THEY SAY THAT THIS IS AN IMAGE OF HORUS, ENCIRCLING THEIR 30 NAMED MOTHER.
ANTE-NICENE FATHERS ALEXANDER ROBERTS VOLUME I P.342
In his book "Egyptian Ideas of the Future Life" page 48, He says "In Osiris the christian Egyptians found the prototype of Christ, and in the pictures and statues of Isis suckling her son Horus , they perceived the prototype of the virgin Mary and her child. Never did Christianity find elsewhere in the world a people whose minds were so thoroughly well prepared to receive its doctrines as the Egyptians."
In Ancient Christian Magic By Dr. M. Myers a professor of religious studies at Chapman college and Dr. R. Smith a Professor at Claremount graduate school, the authors report on a CRUCIFIX in the coptic Museum in Old Cairo " with the CRUCIFIED figure of Jesus together with a falcon ( HORUS ).This artifact demonstrates that identifying Horus with Jesus occured even in antiquity.
M.Meyer A.C.M. P.363
Dr. E.A. Wallis Budge ,The Gods of Egypt ( I,xv-xvi)
At the last,when Osiris's cult disappeared before the religion of the man Christ,the Egyptians who embraced Christianity found that the moral system of the old cult and that of the new religion WERE SO SIMILAR, and the promises of resurrection and immortality in each so much alike , that they transferred their allegiance from Osiris to Jesus of nazareth , without difficulty. Moreover
ISIS AND THE CHILD HORUS WERE STRAIGHTWAY IDENTIFIED WITH MARY THE VIRGIN AND HER SON.
and in the apocryphal literature of the first few centuries which followed the evangelization of Egypt,several of the legends about Isis and sorrowful wanderings were made to center around the mother of Christ.
Certain of the attributes of the sister goddesses of Isis were also ascribed to her, and like the goddess Neith of Sais, she was declared to possess perpetual virginity,
Certain of the Egyptian christian fathers gave to the virgin the title "THEOTOKOS", or "mother of god", FORGETTING, APPARENTLY,THAT IS WAS AN EXACT TRANSLATION OF NETER MUT, A VERY OLD AND COMMON TITLE OF ISIS.
Horus/Osiris was also the "Way, the Truth, the Life,"
Wallis budge , Egyptian book of the dead, p.345 and go down to number 22 on the page...." Lord of right and truth".
"Messiah,
Faulkner,Ancient egyptian coffin text,vol. I p.133
..."Savior God",
Osiris is anointed with oil,
Mercer,Samuel, The pyramid text p.238
" the "Good Shepherd," the "Lamb of God,
"The concept of the good sheperd.. shifted the idea of kingship" wilson ,john,The culture of ancient Egypt p.120 .
" the "Word of Truth,Word made flesh
Budge p.349 "Fetish to god in ancient egypt"
" etc.(Horus/Osiris was also the "Way, the Truth, the Life," "Messiah," the "Son of Man," the "Good Shepherd.
Horus's ' Good Shepard role is made clear in the Pyramid Texts (PT) 690:2106a-b/N 524.
Just type in to the google search " Egyptian meaning of IUSA " and you get EVER COMING CHILD as a result.
" the "Son of Man,..IUSA , the coming son
tranlated by Budge ,p.227 and p.68 , Egyptian Language
Page 227 and go down to line 5 for the meaning of IU
Page 68 and go down to line 21 SA means son.
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Permalink Reply by Rui Pedro Jonah on -
To err is human, in fact, and perhaps there are many coincidences, lucky ones for some, sad ones for others; but “don`t throw the baby out with the bath water”...
There is much prime-quality Judaism in what we got from Yeshua. Even I believe he saved faithful Judaism and was the most noticed predecessor of the Rabbinic age; and most of those Rabbis who followed him in time just followed him in their teachings too.
Rui
Eretzsus lavan said:You may possibly be interested in this information.
Maybe through your religious training, you may have come across the idea that Christianity is Egyptian based in it's theology.
Here are a few scholarly sources .
I have mostly been hearing that Prof.Budge was a crackpot, yet I find his research sourced in lots of scholarly works.
I can find piles of his books in any new or used book store.He is not the first and certainly won't be the last either.
* Horus was born on "December 25th" (winter solstice) in a manger.The festival of Osiris is celebrated in the Egyptian month of Koiak from the 12th to the 30th. This is related to the death burial and resurrection.
It is the winter solstice.
Christian COPTS use a calendar based on the ancient Egyptian solar calender...but with LEAP YEARS.
KOIAK 29 is December 25th or 26th on the JULIAN Calendar.
Calendrical Calculation, Cambridge University press,London
2007 p.73-77
* He was of royal descent, and his mother was the "virgin Isis-Mery."
(Isis ,like the goddess Neith of Sais was declared to possess
PERPETUAL VIRGINITY "
Dr. E.A. Wallis Budge (Catholic scholar ) , Keeper of Assyrian and Egyptian antiquities
of the British museum.He wrote this quote in his book "The Gods of Egypt"
"Isis , the mother of Horus as known by the title , Mother of god, Immaculate VIRGIN..." William Williamson, The great law, a study of religious origins page 26
" The Egyptian goddess who was equally the GREAT VIRGIN and mother of god was the object of the very same praise bestowed upon her successor , Mary, the virgin mother of Jesus. "
Dr. R.E.Witt, Isis in the ancient world page 273
" Virgin Isis worship was trasferred to the virgin Mary by the Collyridions and Marians before the council of Nicea "
Egytian Belief and Modern thought by James Bonwick ( Baptist scholar ) p. 147
* Horus's birth was announced by a star in the East and attended by three "wise men."
* At age 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized.
found on papyrus DCIV
'When Si-Osiris was 12 years old he was wiser than the wisest of the scribes" Folk-lore, p.498
12/30 represents the 12 signs of the zodiac and the 30 days in 12 months.
Heroditus, George Rawlinson 1862 p.3-4.
* Horus was baptized by "Anup the Baptizer," who was decapitated.
ANUBIS ALSO SHARES WITH HORUS THE ROLE OF PURIFIER/BAPTIZER
ANCIENT EGYPTIAN PYRAMID TEXTS,RAYMOND FAULKNER ,1973 P.152
* The Egyptian god had 12 companions, helpers or disciples.
* Horus was "crucified" between two "thieves."
(Mark did not know that thieves were never crucified in Judea " historically this never occurred .
Illuminate of Gorlitz or Jakob Bohme's Life and Philosophy,Part 3,Kessinger 2003 by H. Vetterling
" In the Zodiac of Denderah,Just where Horus is on the cross, or at the crossing of the vernal equinox,these two thieves, Sut-Anup and Aan are depicted one on either side of the Luni solar god. These two mythical originals have been continued and humanised as the two thieves in the gospel version of the crucifixion )
* He (or Osiris) was buried for three days and resurrected.
(...the solemn morning for the god Osiris was 3 days and 3 nights in the waters before he was restored to life again "The American Journal of Theology ( XX, 5 )
* Horus/Osiris was also the "Way, the Truth, the Life," "Messiah," the "Son of Man," the "Good Shepherd," the "Lamb of God," the "Word made flesh," the "Word of Truth," etc.(Horus/Osiris was also the "Way, the Truth, the Life," "Messiah," the "Son of Man," the "Good Shepherd.
Horus's ' Good Shepard role is made clear in the Pyramid Texts (PT) 690:2106a-b/N 524.
In Book of the Dead appears a long " List of the forms and shrines of Osiris " with over 140 epithets for the god,including " Protector" or " SHEPARD "- Asar-saa.
The book of the dead ,Thomas allen 1974 118-119 )
* Horus's personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of the Father. He was called "Holy Child," as well as "the Anointed One," while Osiris was the KRST.
* Horus battled with the "evil one," Set/Seth.
Horus enthroned before the Twelve,
Seventh Hour of the Amduat.
(Erik Hornung, The Ancient Egyptian Books of the Afterlife, 48)
AS TO THE DUODECAD,IT IS INDICATED BY THE ZODIACAL CIRCLE,AS IT IS CALLED ; FOR THEY AFFIRM THAT THE 12 SIGNS DO MOSTLY MANIFESTLY SHADOW FORTH THE DUODECAD, THE DAUGHTER OF ANTHROPIS AND ECCLESIA. AND SINCE THE HIGHEST HEAVEN , BEATING UPON THE VERY SPHERE OF THE SEVENTH HEAVEN,.... SO THAT IT COMPLETES A CYCLE FROM SIGN TO SIGN IN 30 YEARS, - THEY SAY THAT THIS IS AN IMAGE OF HORUS, ENCIRCLING THEIR 30 NAMED MOTHER.
ANTE-NICENE FATHERS ALEXANDER ROBERTS VOLUME I P.342
In his book "Egyptian Ideas of the Future Life" page 48, He says "In Osiris the christian Egyptians found the prototype of Christ, and in the pictures and statues of Isis suckling her son Horus , they perceived the prototype of the virgin Mary and her child. Never did Christianity find elsewhere in the world a people whose minds were so thoroughly well prepared to receive its doctrines as the Egyptians."
In Ancient Christian Magic By Dr. M. Myers a professor of religious studies at Chapman college and Dr. R. Smith a Professor at Claremount graduate school, the authors report on a CRUCIFIX in the coptic Museum in Old Cairo " with the CRUCIFIED figure of Jesus together with a falcon ( HORUS ).This artifact demonstrates that identifying Horus with Jesus occured even in antiquity.
M.Meyer A.C.M. P.363
Dr. E.A. Wallis Budge ,The Gods of Egypt ( I,xv-xvi)
At the last,when Osiris's cult disappeared before the religion of the man Christ,the Egyptians who embraced Christianity found that the moral system of the old cult and that of the new religion WERE SO SIMILAR, and the promises of resurrection and immortality in each so much alike , that they transferred their allegiance from Osiris to Jesus of nazareth , without difficulty. Moreover
ISIS AND THE CHILD HORUS WERE STRAIGHTWAY IDENTIFIED WITH MARY THE VIRGIN AND HER SON.
and in the apocryphal literature of the first few centuries which followed the evangelization of Egypt,several of the legends about Isis and sorrowful wanderings were made to center around the mother of Christ.
Certain of the attributes of the sister goddesses of Isis were also ascribed to her, and like the goddess Neith of Sais, she was declared to possess perpetual virginity,
Certain of the Egyptian christian fathers gave to the virgin the title "THEOTOKOS", or "mother of god", FORGETTING, APPARENTLY,THAT IS WAS AN EXACT TRANSLATION OF NETER MUT, A VERY OLD AND COMMON TITLE OF ISIS.
Horus/Osiris was also the "Way, the Truth, the Life,"
Wallis budge , Egyptian book of the dead, p.345 and go down to number 22 on the page...." Lord of right and truth".
"Messiah,
Faulkner,Ancient egyptian coffin text,vol. I p.133
..."Savior God",
Osiris is anointed with oil,
Mercer,Samuel, The pyramid text p.238
" the "Good Shepherd," the "Lamb of God,
"The concept of the good sheperd.. shifted the idea of kingship" wilson ,john,The culture of ancient Egypt p.120 .
" the "Word of Truth,Word made flesh
Budge p.349 "Fetish to god in ancient egypt"
" etc.(Horus/Osiris was also the "Way, the Truth, the Life," "Messiah," the "Son of Man," the "Good Shepherd.
Horus's ' Good Shepard role is made clear in the Pyramid Texts (PT) 690:2106a-b/N 524.
Just type in to the google search " Egyptian meaning of IUSA " and you get EVER COMING CHILD as a result.
" the "Son of Man,..IUSA , the coming son
tranlated by Budge ,p.227 and p.68 , Egyptian Language
Page 227 and go down to line 5 for the meaning of IU
Page 68 and go down to line 21 SA means son.
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Permalink Reply by Earth White Horse on
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This seems to be the most interesting to me.
Hórus nasceu em "25 de dezembro (solstício de inverno), em um festival de Osíris manger.The é comemorado no mês egípcio de Koiak de 12 a 30. Isto está relacionado com o enterro da morte e ressurreição.
É o solstício de inverno.
Cristãos coptas usar um calendário baseado no calendário egípcio antigo solar ... mas com os anos bissextos.
KOIAK 29 é 25 de dezembro ou 26 no calendário juliano.
Calendrical Cálculo, Cambridge University Press, London
2007 p.73-77
Rui Pedro said:To err is human, in fact, and perhaps there are many coincidences, lucky ones for some, sad ones for others; but “don`t throw the baby out with the bath water”...
There is much prime-quality Judaism in what we got from Yeshua. Even I believe he saved faithful Judaism and was the most noticed predecessor of the Rabbinic age; and most of those Rabbis who followed him in time just followed him in their teachings too.
Rui
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Permalink Reply by Rui Pedro Jonah on
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Yes, I could read this in English in your previous post. Yet, I believe this tells more about the Roman Empire/ Catholic Church proceedings rather than about Yeshuah life and teachings. The Roman Emperors washed the Judaism out of Christianity when they adopted it, and impregnated it with paganism. Should we ignore the jewish Jesus because of that? Shall we render victory to the usurpers? Shall we blame the Tanak for the Jews allowing others to translate it without proper advise? Weren't the jews of the time hiding the details so the world wouldn't get the truth? Who are we to blame...
Not the Christians, not the Messianic Jews, no one ever tried to wash out the paganism out of the New Testament so we would have access to a Tanak-conforming Gospel and Revelations. Who are we to blame? Shall we die in ignorance when truth is challenging us at each corner? No one dares...
There are too many errors, yet we should struggle to correct them...
Shalom
Rui
Eretzsus lavan said:This seems to be the most interesting to me.
Hórus nasceu em "25 de dezembro (solstício de inverno), em um festival de Osíris manger.The é comemorado no mês egípcio de Koiak de 12 a 30. Isto está relacionado com o enterro da morte e ressurreição.
É o solstício de inverno.
Cristãos coptas usar um calendário baseado no calendário egípcio antigo solar ... mas com os anos bissextos.
KOIAK 29 é 25 de dezembro ou 26 no calendário juliano.
Calendrical Cálculo, Cambridge University Press, London
2007 p.73-77
Rui Pedro said:To err is human, in fact, and perhaps there are many coincidences, lucky ones for some, sad ones for others; but “don`t throw the baby out with the bath water”...
There is much prime-quality Judaism in what we got from Yeshua. Even I believe he saved faithful Judaism and was the most noticed predecessor of the Rabbinic age; and most of those Rabbis who followed him in time just followed him in their teachings too.
Rui
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Permalink Reply by Tom Moniz on -
Personally, I have come to the conclusion that the genealogies concerning the man from Galilee are complete fabrications, added later to the gospels of Matthew and Luke, whereas John seems to have it correct, with him simply showing up at the Jordan, without anyone knowing who he was, nor from where he came. As John stated, he was a ben Yoseph, a suffering servant, rejected by his brothers.
Sincerely,
Tom
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Permalink Reply by Rui Pedro Jonah on
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Shalom, all
In my opinion, the most important teachings on the Torah come from Yeshuah. If there are errors in the legacy literature about him, we should still keep much respect for Yeshuah himself, as we show by any prophets and rabbis, about whom we usually manifest reverence and admiration.
To focus on the errors and contradictions without a counter-part work on the clarification and honoring of his legacy is comparable to what the Christians do about the Torah they call abolished Law.
Shalom
Rui
Tom Moniz said:Personally, I have come to the conclusion that the genealogies concerning the man from Galilee are complete fabrications, added later to the gospels of Matthew and Luke, whereas John seems to have it correct, with him simply showing up at the Jordan, without anyone knowing who he was, nor from where he came. As John stated, he was a ben Yoseph, a suffering servant, rejected by his brothers.
Sincerely,
Tom
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Permalink Reply by Earth White Horse on
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Shalom Rui and Tom ,
Thanks for the great responses .
2000 years and lots of speculation.
Rabbi Yashua and his story lives on .
Here is something interesting about the miracle of his resurrection story which has been discussed for 100's of years.
Matthew or John's resurrection story's appear viable. When read side by side, however, they conflict because it would have been chronologically impossible for both accounts to have occurred. In fact, the crucial events presented in these two Gospel narratives are so manifestly contradictory that even liberal Believers, who often allow for occasional mistakes that appear in the Christian letters, must take pause.
A brief study will examine several contradictions in the variant Jewish accounts of the resurrection chronology as reported by the authors of Matthew and John.
Matthew presents us with a post-resurrection story where the two Marys are greeted at the tomb by an angel who had just rolled away the stone from its entrance. After revealing to both women the empty place where Yashua's' body once laid, the angel proclaims to them that Yashua had already risen from the dead. The angel goes on to instruct both Marys that they are to tell the disciples that Yahshua had gone before them to the Galilee to meet them. (Matthew 28:1-7)
If that encounter wasn't convincing enough for the two women, Matthew continues to relate how, after leaving the tomb, both Marys unexpectedly meet the resurrected Yashua himself, whom they both worship. Yashua then essentially repeats the angel's instructions to them, and sends the women to inform the disciples that they are to meet the resurrected Yashua in the Galilee. (Matthew 28:8-10)
Like Matthew's account, John's resurrection narrative also contains an empty tomb. However, that is where the similarities between the first and fourth Gospels end. In John's version of the first morning, when Mary Magdalene comes to the tomb, there is no angel there to greet her with information about Yahshua's whereabouts or instructions about a rendezvous in the Galilee as we find in Matthew's account (Matthew 28:5-7). On the contrary, in John's story, after Mary finds the empty tomb, she concludes that someone had removed the body from the grave. Mary certainly had no reason to believe otherwise. She therefore quickly runs back to the disciples and reports, "They have taken the Rabbi out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him!" (John 20:1-2)
The above account is entirely inconsistent with Matthew's post-resurrection narrative. Why didn't Mary know that Yashua's body was not laid anywhere? In Matthew's story, the angel had already reported to her that Yashua rose from the dead and had gone to the Galilee. It would therefore have been contradictory for her to think that someone had moved the body when the angels had already informed her that Yashua's resurrection had occurred. Moreover, if the angel's instructions to her were not convincing enough, Matthew maintains that Mary also met the resurrected Yashua himself right after leaving the tomb (Matthew 28:9); and all this transpires before Mary ever sees the disciples. Why then in John's Gospel is Mary clueless as to where the rabbi's body was moved, when according to Matthew, Mary had already heard from two reliable sources -- the angel at the tomb and Yashua himself -- that Yashua rose from the dead?
Further contradicting Matthew's post-resurrection account, John's story lacks the Roman guards whom Matthew places at the tomb to prevent anyone from removing Yashua's body. How could John's Mary have thought that someone removed the body, when according to Matthew, Roman soldiers were placed at the tomb for the specific purpose of preventing just such an occurrence? The author of the fourth Christian letter has no need for Roman guards at the tomb, so in John's crucifixion account they simply are not there.
This Gospel problem of the missing Roman soldiers in the Book of John raises another important issue. Believers often contend that it would have been impossible for anyone to have surreptitiously removed Yashua's corpse from the tomb because there were guards posted at the tomb which would have prevented this. Without any possibility for the body to have been quietly whisked away, the only other conclusion is that Rabbi Yashua must have truly been raised from the dead.
John's account, however, completely nullifies this argument because according to his story line that is precisely what Mary thought had happened. Mary clearly didn't feel as though the scenario of Rabbi's' body being removed was unlikely. In fact, according to John, that was her only logical conclusion. Clearly, Matthew's guards didn't dissuade John's Mary from concluding that someone had taken the rabbi's body, because, in John's story, Matthew's Roman guards do not exist.
To compound the problem of the conflicting resurrection accounts even further, John's letter continues to unfold with Mary returning to the tomb a second time only to find two angels sitting inside the tomb. Mary is still unaware of any resurrection as she complains to the angels that someone had removed her rabbi's cadaver. As far as John's Mary was concerned, the only explanation for the missing body was that someone must have removed it, and she was determined to locate it (John 20:11-13). Although in Matthew's account the angel emphatically tells Mary about the resurrection (Matthew 28:5-7), in John's Gospel the angels say nothing about any resurrection. The angels only ask Mary, "Woman, why are you weeping?" Mary then inquires as to whether the angels have removed the rabbi's body. At that point, Mary turns around only to see Rabbi Yashua standing before her, and mistakes him for the gardener. Mary is still completely unaware of any resurrection, and therefore asks the "gardener" if he was the one who carried away the Rabbi's body. It is only then that Mary realizes that she was speaking to the resurrected Yashua (John 20:14-16).
It is at this final juncture of the letter's that the accounts of Matthew and John remain contradictory. The question every believer must respond to is the following: When Mary met Yashua for the first time after the resurrection, had the angel(s) already informed her that Yashua rose from the dead?
According to Matthew he clearly did, and in John's account they certainly did not.
Both could not have occurred.
Yasher Coakh,
Dances with Horses
Rui Pedro said:Shalom, all
In my opinion, the most important teachings on the Torah come from Yeshuah. If there are errors in the legacy literature about him, we should still keep much respect for Yeshuah himself, as we show by any prophets and rabbis, about whom we usually manifest reverence and admiration.
To focus on the errors and contradictions without a counter-part work on the clarification and honoring of his legacy is comparable to what the Christians do about the Torah they call abolished Law.
Shalom
Rui
Tom Moniz said:Personally, I have come to the conclusion that the genealogies concerning the man from Galilee are complete fabrications, added later to the gospels of Matthew and Luke, whereas John seems to have it correct, with him simply showing up at the Jordan, without anyone knowing who he was, nor from where he came. As John stated, he was a ben Yoseph, a suffering servant, rejected by his brothers.
Sincerely,
Tom
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