Isaiah 7-Sign to Ahaz,Days that have not come (YET)- in his Father's House,Isaiah 9-Pele-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-Shalom

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Permalink Reply by Anders Branderud on February 18, 2012 at 3:40am

How the verse should be interpreted is determined by the Hebrew text itself according to etymology, historial context and cantillation marks.

According to the Messianic prophecies in the Hebrew Bible (which Christians call “OT”) the Jewish Messiah would be a man born by two human parents – i.e. he would not be divine/”Son of God”/'Saviour'.
E.g. according to Isaiah chapter 7 to 9 in Hebrew: http://www.netzarim.co.il/Shared/MessPro.htm#Scripture-Yeshayahu-9.5

"Y^әshayahu 9.5 (not 9.6!)

Citing 9.6 for this passage shows that the person uses the Christian OT, not a Bible. In the Bible, this passage is 9.5.

While Christian interpretations distort the pasuq to support the pagan mythological notion of a divine Christ, some Jewish interpretations contradict the constraints imposed by the cantillation.

"(wa-yiqrâ sh^әmo Pëlë yoeitz Eil Jibor; avi-ad sar- shâlom; "and he called his name 'Wonder,' a counselor of Eil Jibor; My Father is until [i.e. forever], a minister of peace").

According to the Tei•mân•i′ "כתר תורה תאג'", Tar•gum′ Yo•nâ•tân′ reads:

אֲמַר נְבִיָּא לְּבֵית דָּוִד, אֲרֵי רָבֵי אִתְיְלֵיד לַנָא, בַּר אִתְיְהֵיב לַנָא, וְקַבֵּיל אוֹרָיתָא עֲלוֹהִי לְמִטְּרַהּ, וְאִתְקְרִי שְׁמֵיהּ מִן קֳדָם מַפְלִיא עֵיצָא אֱלָהָא גִּבָּרָא קַיָּם עָלְּמַיָּא, מְשִׁיחָא דִּשְׁלָמָא יִסגֵּי עֲלַנָא בְּיוֹמוֹהִי׃

(a•mar′ n^әvi•yâ l^ә-veit Dâ•wid′, a•reiy′ râv•eiy′ i•t^әy^әleiyd′ la•nâ′, bar i•t^әy^әheiyv′ la•nâ′, w^ә-qa•beiyl′ o•rây•tâ′ al•o•hiy′ l^ә-mi•t^әrah, w^ә-i•t^әq^әriy′ sh^әm•eiyh min qâ•dâm′ ma•ph^әliy′ eiy•tzâ′ ël•â•hâ′ ji•bâr•â′ qa•yâm′ â•l^әma•yâ′, m^әshikh•â′ di-sh^әlâm•â′ yis•jeiy′ al•a•nâ′ b^ә-yom•o•hi′; Said the Prophet to the House of David, "Behold a boy child is born to us, a son is given to us; and he will accept the Tor•âh′ upon himself for rain, and his name is to be called (since [he is] a wonder of counsel, of the Ël•oh•im′ Almighty, Who endures forever): 'The Mâ•shi′akh of peace' [who] will grow on us in his days.")"

[Quote: www.netzarim.co.il ]

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Permalink Reply by Ahava bas Levi on February 18, 2012 at 4:01am

Rabbi G Killian gives also a similiar teaching-but still believes in Yeshua.I personally have a Problem with Text that is unreliable & inaccurate.In the Mitzvot-any False Prophecy oe teaching was a Very serious sin-& was considered of Ha Satan????

Once I though that the Ruach Ha Kosdesh was telling me that with feigned words-THEY have made merchandise of me.I don't know who THEY are- but I think that it refers to the False Teachers in the Church!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TODDAH!

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Permalink Reply by Ahava bas Levi on February 24, 2012 at 8:49pm

HOPE THAT YOU HAD A GOOD SHABBOS!!!!!!!!!!!

ON  SECOND THOUGHT-tonite- FOR SOME reason-my Meds & Illnesses were NOt clouding my Mind-so I had Better Clarity! From the Masoteric Text (Which translation is From JEWISH EXPERTS & is supposed to be consistent with the Dead Sea Scrolls)- In Isaiah 6:9-...."And He (the Lord) said-'GO- tell this the People:

HEAR ye indeed,BUT PERCEIVE NOT-make the Heart of the People fat,and make THEIR EARS HEAVY,and SHUT THEIR EYES;and hearing with their ears-and understanding with their heart,RETURN and BE HEALED....."

Then in Is:7- Ahaz- the Grandson of King Uzziah was met by Isaiah & His son-Shear-jashub

& in Is:10-The Lord speaks to Ahaz-...."ask thee a SIGN of the Lord thy G-d & when Ahaz-(also still being BLINDED----like the Rest of Israel)- thought he would do something wrong by asking The Lord for a SIGN -MISUNDERSTOOD-& REFUSED!!!!!!!! (Which angered the LORD)!!!!!!!!!!!!!

later in Is:!0 the Lord says-"O HOUSE OF DAVID-

is it a small thing for you to weary my G-d also? Therefore the Lord will give you a SIGN.........." etc!

What I missed was- that it BEGAN by Saying TO THE HOUSE OF DAVID- NOT( AHAZ)- I will give you a SIGN........

Since Ahaz refused to ask for a Sign- the Lord then CHANGED what HE was saying & instead Addressed the WHOLE HOUSE OF DAVID>>>>>>>>>>>>

This is what Confused many & where the Controversy Started!!!!

Israel & evidentaly- Ahaz were still in a State where he heard the Lords' Voice with his Ears- but still DID NOT UNDERSTAND & so instead the Lord said that He'd give the SIGN & Chose it HIMSELF

& Gave it to the WHOLE HOUSE OF ISRAEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even though what did happen Historically was that the Northern Kingdom that had joined  themselves with the Evil Assyrian Enemies--- vs their Brothers in the Southern Kingdom of Kings & Priests-they were NOT Victorious & the 10 Northern Tribes instead were taken into Captivity by the Assyrians & did NOT defeat the Southern Kingdom-this PROMISE from G-d was kept!

That PROMISE was KEPT- but it does leave it open ---that the Other SIGN of the Maiden giving Birth to a Son may be a Later Sign to the Entire House of David.I do not know of any recorded PROOF that a Boy named Immanuel being born during Ahaz's Lifetime-??????????????????

if there is such a Proof- please let me know-& I do not mean from Commentary-I mean REAL PROOF!!

Also-we know that if a Young women were with Child & NOT married as a Virgin- she would have been stoned to Death for Breaking the Mitzvot?????? I do not want to say more on that???????

As far as the Story sounding like that of BAAL- we also have to remember that SATAN imitates & Confuses!!!!!!!!!

NONE of the Babylonian,Egyptian,Persian,Roman or other pagan gods taught the Jewish Mitzvot- told everyone to believe & pray to the G-d -the FATHER of Israel- being the ONLY G-d-& ECHAD- or warn to keep every Tittle of the Jewish Mitzvot- nor did they do good- most were immoral-some were Drinking gods- some of Fornication-or Multiple gods etc

Yeshua was the ONLY one to acknowledge the G-d of Israel- the FATHER- who is ECHAD!!!!!!!!!

The SHEMA was NEVER on the lips of BAAL or any other pagan gods-that's what makes the STORY about Yeshua= DIFFERENT from the gods of BAAL etc- that were of Ha Satan!!!!!!!!!!!!

To DISCERN LIGHT from DARK-----we have to look at what they Taught & did!!!!!!!!!!!

The Tragedy- is that 300 Gospels were burned & we have very little of the Original Texts of the NT- (which is of Ha Satan)!!!!!!!!!!

Anything Intermingled will NOT stand-so the FALSE CHURCH will NOT stand that is mixed with Pagan xmas-easter etc-but the PURE JEWISH Teachings that are CORRECT-I believe- will stand?????

& it is of New Covenant Judaism????

This SLUMBER that most of us were in partly- must NOW be cleared up for ALL of us- we ALL look through the GLAss-darkly-because our Flesh is sinful & I know that I try to REPENT all the TIME- so that I can see & Hear!!!!!!!!!

MAY WE ALL BE BLESSED WITH TH FULL TRUTH!!!!!!!!!

' go  7

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