Let's talk about Jesus...

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Permalink Reply by Earth White Horse on December 31, 2011 at 8:38am

THIS STORY CAN'T POSSIBLY BE TRUE.


1. Who found the empty tomb?

a. According to Matthew 28:1, only "Mary Magdalene and the other Mary."

b. According to Mark 16:1, "Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome."

c. According to Luke 23:55, 24:1 and 24:10, "the women who had come with him out of Galilee." Among these women were "Mary Magdalene and Joanna and Mary the mother of James." Luke indicates in verse 24:10 that there were at least two others.



d. According to John 20:1-4, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb --ALONE--, saw the stone removed, ran to find Peter, and returned to the tomb with Peter and another disciple.



2. Who did they find at the tomb?

a. According to Matthew 28:2-4, an angel of the Lord with an appearance like lightning was sitting on the stone that had been rolled away. Also present were the guards that Pilate had contributed.
-- On the way back from the tomb the women meet Jesus--- (Matthew 28:9).

b. According to Mark 16:5, a young man in a white robe was sitting inside the tomb.

c. According to Luke 24:4,-- two men in dazzling apparel--. It is not clear if the men were inside the tomb or outside of it.



d. According to John 20:4-14, Mary and Peter and the other disciple initially find just an empty tomb. Peter and the other disciple enter the tomb and find only the wrappings. Then Peter and the other disciple leave and Mary looks in the tomb to find two angels in white. After a short conversation with the angels,-- Mary turns around to find Jesus--.



3. Who did the women tell about the empty tomb?



a. According to Mark 16:8, "they said--- NOTHING ---to anyone."



b. According to Matthew 28:8, they ---"ran to report it to His disciples."----



c. According to Luke 24:9, "they reported these things to the--- eleven and to all the rest."---



d. According to John 20:18, Mary Magdalene announces to the disciples that she has seen the Lord

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Permalink Reply by David L. Tiffany on December 31, 2011 at 10:43am

1 Corinthians 3:17, "If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple."  This speaks of ravenous wolves dressed in sheeps (Christian) clothing who deliberately come in to oppose the truth and divide the flock, the body of Christ. 

 

I'm sorry, but you cannot carry the name "Christian" and not believe Jesus is who He says He is.  Christian means "little Christ" or a follower of the "Way" or someone who follows Jesus.  Both the Old Testament and the New Testament refer to Jesus as being God.  I hope that your readers will do their own homework and study the Scriptures to see whether or not you are telling the truth.  To throw out Jesus is to throw out the only Name given under heaven by which a man or woman may be saved.  http://483years.blogspot.com/

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Permalink Reply by Jodell O on December 31, 2011 at 11:35am

Totally agree, Tamla. What really hit me between the eyes were the statements Jeremiah makes about the doctrines of the nation's being vanity (Jer 10:15, 16:19; Isa 41:29, 44:29). This pricked my interest and I started asking "what doctrines were associated with idol worship during Jeremiah's days?" What I discovered was that so many of the idols (Osiris, Horus, Mithra, Dammuzi (Tammuz), Hathor, Isis, Inanna) were in general, universal. What I found is that even though cults had different applications at particular locations, the overall doctrine transcended every nation....dying savior god, holy mother, an enemy god (Seth-satan). This was quite troubling, but then when I investigated some particular doctrines (Jesus being "lord and judge of the dead...was a common title of Egypt's Osiris or Babylon's Tammuz), the similarities in doctrine became more troubling.

Then I came across the story of Buddha and found texts that actually pre-date the NT by several hundred years. The story of JC and Buddha are almost identical. Another book I found, the "Parellel Sayings of Jesus and Buddha," taken from texts that pre-date the NT have lead me to the conclusion that many NT authors plagiarized from the former.   One, in particular that struck me was Jesus's statment that if you have the faith the size of a mustard seed, be removed to the mts and it will happen. Buddha said the same thing only instead of saying mts, he says "if you say to the Himalays." And the similarities do not end there. Another book, "The Jesus Mysteries" was also compelling.

Yet, I found so many NT doctrines that so contrast against the Tanach. No dying savior. No need to even die for sins (Ezek 18, 33). Forgiveness can come through prayer (2 Chr 8; Hos 4:). And, NO "S"atan. There is no "0" sum game in the Tanach...rather, YHWH's mercy is abundant and he works in particular methods that if we want to enjoy we have to get with the program. This led me to get on board and forsake the lies I'd inherited. Now, the foundation is so much stronger, vision clearer, and hope...oh the hope so much more real!!  

Blessings,

Jodi

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Permalink Reply by Tamla Boone on December 31, 2011 at 12:12pm

Sorry David, I must have misled you in my writings, my salvation is in YHWH only! I am not a christian.  I have also never destroyed a temple.  Nor am I hiding behind anything.  I simply stated the truth according to scripture and NT writings.  I have no motives to divide the body of christ.  It seems like it is pretty much divided already-Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, non-denominational... it also seems like it might self-destruct on it's own.  One little old lady won't do it a lick of damage.  Most people on this forum are not christians,I was just stating that we needed to stop tip toe-ing around saying the NT is not a good resource.  I pray constantly that we all will read and discover the lies our forefathers told us. I love ya...hope this reads on an open heart, eyes and ears.

David L. Tiffany said:

1 Corinthians 3:17, "If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple."  This speaks of ravenous wolves dressed in sheeps (Christian) clothing who deliberately come in to oppose the truth and divide the flock, the body of Christ. 

 

I'm sorry, but you cannot carry the name "Christian" and not believe Jesus is who He says He is.  Christian means "little Christ" or a follower of the "Way" or someone who follows Jesus.  Both the Old Testament and the New Testament refer to Jesus as being God.  I hope that your readers will do their own homework and study the Scriptures to see whether or not you are telling the truth.  To throw out Jesus is to throw out the only Name given under heaven by which a man or woman may be saved.  http://483years.blogspot.com/

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Permalink Reply by Allen on December 31, 2011 at 5:03pm

From my website...

Who was Y'shua?

Part 1 – Laying the foundation

We begin our study during his childhood.

Luke 2:21 And when eight days were completed for him to be circumcised, his name was called Y’shua... 22 And when the days of her cleansing according to the law of Moses were completed, they brought him to Jerusalem to present him to The Almighty. 23 as it has been written in the law of The Almighty, “Every male who opens the womb shall be called set-apart to The Almighty” 24 and to give an offering according to what is said in the law of The Almighty, “A pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons.”… 39 And when they had accomplished all according to the law of The Almighty, they returned to Galilee, to their city Nazareth…

We see that Y'shua was circumcised on the eighth day and was presented at the Temple according to the Law of Moses written in Leviticus 12.

Did Y’shua keep the Jewish Festivals?

Luke 2:41 And his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the Festival of the Passover. 42 And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem according to the practice of the festival… 46  And it came to be… that they found Him in the Temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions.

John 2:23 And when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, at the festival…

John 5:1 After this there was a festival of the Jews, and Y’shua went up to Jerusalem.

John 7:2 And the festival of the Jews was near, the Festival of Booths… 14 and about the middle of the festival Joshua went up into the Temple, and he was teaching.

Matthew 26:17 And on the first of Unleavened Bread the taught ones came to Y’shua, saying to him, “Where do you wish us to prepare for you to eat the Passover?”

Part 1 Summary:

We find that Y'shua was Jewish. He and his parents observed the Jewish Festivals and Sabbaths.

Part 2 – Laying the foundation “corner” stone” – Y'shua the teacher

In this portion we will establish what may be Y’shua’s primary purposes; Teaching.

We begin by defining teacher in the New Testament. We will use Matthew 10 verse 24.

24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his Lord. (King James)

The Greek word for "disciple" in this verse is math-ay-tes. Strongs # G3101 defined as “a learner or pupil”

The Greek word for "master" in this verse is didaskalos.  Strongs # G1320 defined as “an instructor or teacher” from G1321 did-as'-ko which is defined as “to teach”.

The plain (common sense) translation for this verse would be:

“The student is not above his teacher, nor the servant above his master”.

In every verse we will reference for teacher, this same translator bias is introduced. Please study this out for yourself.

Here are examples:

Matthew 22:15 Then the Pharisees went and plotted how to trap him in his words. 16 And they sent to him their students with the Herodians, saying, “teacher, we know that you are true, and teach the way of Elohim in truth, and it does not concern you about anyone, for you are not partial to any man. 17 “Then say to us, what do you think? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?”

Matthew 22:23 On that day Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him and asked him, 24 saying, “teacher, Mosheh said that if anyone should die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife and raise offspring for his brother.

Matthew 22:34 But the Pharisees, having heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, were gathered together, 35 and one of them, one learned in the Torah, did question, trying him, and saying, 36 “teacher, which is the great command in the Torah?”

We see that those who were learned in the torah, the Pharisees, Sadducees and Scribes, referred to Y’shua as “teacher” and asked him to elaborate on torah principles usually as a test of his torah knowledge.

What did Y’shua teach?

Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to complete. 18 “For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall by no means pass from the law till all be done. 19 “Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.

Matthew 19:16 And see, one came and said to him, “Good teacher, what good shall I do to have everlasting life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except One – Elohim. But if you wish to enter into life, guard the commands.” 18 He said to him, “Which?” And Y'shua said, “You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Respect your father and your mother,’ and ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’ ”

Mark 12:28  And one of the scribes coming near, hearing them reasoning together, knowing that he had answered them well, asked him, “Which is the first command of all?” 29 And Y’shua answered him, “The first of all the commands is, ‘Hear, O Israel, YHWH our Elohim, YHWH is one. 30 ‘And you shall love YHWH your Elohim with all your heart, and with all your being, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first command. 31 “And the second, like it, is this, ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’ There is no other command greater than these.” 32 And the scribe said to him, “Well said, teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one Elohim, and there is no other besides Him.

When and where did Y’shua teach?

Matthew 4:23 And Y’shua went about all Galil, teaching in their synagogues, and proclaiming the Good News of the reign…

Matthew 9:35 And Y’shua went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and proclaiming the Good News of the reign…

Matthew 13:54 And when he had come to his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished and said, “Where did this one get this wisdom and miracles? 55 “Is this not the son of the carpenter? Is not his mother called Mary? And his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judah? 56 “And his sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this one get all this?” 57 … But Y’shua said to them, “A prophet is not unappreciated except in his own country and in his own house.”

Mark 1:21 And they went into Capernaum, and immediately on the Sabbath He went into the synagogue and taught.

Luke 6:6 And it also came to be on another Sabbath, that He entered into the synagogue and taught…

Matthew 8:2 And see, a leper came, and bowed before Him, saying, “Master, if You desire, You are able to make me clean.” 3 And stretching out His hand Y’shua touched him, saying, “I desire it. Be cleansed!” And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. 4 And Y’shua said to him, “See, mention it to no one. But go your way, show yourself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, as a witness to them.”

We see that Y'shua was considered a Jewish Rabbi by most. He taught torah principles and claimed that nothing would pass from the torah until the heavens and earth were taken away. He taught in Synagogues and at the Temple.

cont...

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Permalink Reply by Allen on December 31, 2011 at 5:04pm

Part 3 – The Building

Luke 6:47 "Everyone who is coming to me, and is hearing my words and is doing them, I shall show you whom he is like: 48 "He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock. And when a flood came, the stream burst against that house, but was unable to shake it, for it was founded on the rock. 49 "But the one hearing and not doing, is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, against which the stream burst, and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great."

Y’shua’s message here is clear; for the building to stand firm it must have a strong foundation (the hearing of his words and doing them) this is the difference between the building standing firm or crumbling.

John 8:26 "I have much to say and to judge concerning you. But He who sent me is true, and what I heard from Him, these Words I speak to the world." 27 They did not know that he spoke to them of the Father. 28 So Y’shua said to them, "When you lift up the son of man, then you shall know that I am he, and that I do none at all of myself, but as my Father taught me, these words I speak. 29 "And He who sent me is with me. The Father has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases Him."

Before continuing on, we need to clarify the meaning of the statements “What I heard from Him” and “As my Father taught me”. Pay particularly close attention to verse 46 in Luke 2.

Luke 2:41 And his parents went to Yerushalayim every year at the Festival of the Passover. 42 And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Yerushalayim according to the practice of the festival. 43 When they had accomplished the days, as they returned, the child Y’shua stayed behind in Yerushalayim. And his parents did not know it, 44 but thinking he was in the company, they went a day’s journey, and were seeking him among the relatives and friends. 45 And not having found him, they returned to Yerushalayim, seeking him. 46 And it came to be, after three days, that they found him in the Set-apart Place, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions. 47 And all who heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers. 48 And having seen him, they were amazed. And his mother said to him, “Son, why have you done this to us? See, your father and I have been anxiously seeking you.” 49 And he said to them, “Why were you seeking me? Did you not know that I had to be in the matters of my Father?” 50 But they did not understand the word which he spoke to them.

Y’shua was sitting in the midst of the torah teachers listening to them and asking questions. This should have our mind asking the question: If the Father taught him everything, why was he spending time listening to and asking questions of these torah scholars? The answer is simple; Y’shua’s eyes and ears were opened by the Father, which allowed him to see, hear and understand. He was taught indirectly, not directly by the Father as most assert or assume. He was given proper discernment.

What impact should these words of Y’shua have on the truth seeker today? In the above verses we see that Y’shua states that his and our Father is greater than himself, and that the Father alone is worthy of our esteem (Matthew 19:17). We see that the commandments are still to be kept and that they lead to life (Matthew 19:17-19 & Matthew 12:29-31), which directly contrasts with the doctrines of most religions today which teach that the law has been done away (something Y’shua never taught).

John 12:44 Then Y’shua cried out and said, "He who believes in me, believes not in me but in Him who sent me. 45 "And he who sees me sees Him who sent me. 46 "I have come as a light into the world, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. 47 "And if anyone hears my Words but does not watch over them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 "He who rejects me, and does not receive my Words, has one who judges him: the word that I have spoken shall judge him in the last day. 49 "Because I spoke not from myself, but the Father who sent me has given me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, as the Father has said to me, so I speak."

If any words or teachings appear to contradict the message Y’shua proclaimed, we know that they are either twisted, mistranslated, or have been added to validate personal doctrines.

Y’shua came to uphold the Fathers commands, not to do away with them. He learned the torah and prophets from his youth. He is to be the example we use when we build our house.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Elohim and possessing the witness of Y’shua Messiah.

Rev 14:12 Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Elohim and the belief of Y’shua.

Have a solid foundation. Do not allow yourself to be deceived.

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Permalink Reply by Jackie Roggow on January 1, 2012 at 5:05pm

• This website:  torahofmessiah.com has a wealth of articles such as, "Before Abraham Was, I AM", that I found were very helpful in answering many similar questions of my own.

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Permalink Reply by Tamla Boone on January 1, 2012 at 7:46pm

Thank you for the resources.  I understand that we can "explain away" anything, but bottom line is just that...you have to do a whole lot of explaining to make these writings add up.  When you are start trumping up explanations to plain words, we are right back to where we started, christianity.  Hence, my theory that these writings are dangerous and irresponsible to the seeker of truth.

Jackie Roggow said:

• This website:  torahofmessiah.com has a wealth of articles such as, "Before Abraham Was, I AM", that I found were very helpful in answering many similar questions of my own.

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Permalink Reply by Allen on January 2, 2012 at 6:59am

It really boils down to this.

The New Testament is a collection of writings and letters written by people many years after Y'shuas passing.

Many tov teachings have been preserved. Many man inspired additions have been preserved as well. Unlike the TaNaKh which has very few errors the writings in the New Testament have to be sent through a filter. This process can be time consuming and frustrating. Each individual must weigh out for themselves whether to take the TaNaKh only way, the TaNaKh plus the sages writings way, or the TaNaKh plus the sifted New Testament writings way, etc. of drawing nearer to the Eternal.

 

None of these ways is the wrong way to draw closer to our Creator if they lead to the same place. Ultimately if we follow in the footsteps of Y'shua, we follow in the footsteps of Moses. Caring enough about the Mighty One of all creation to seek His will and not our own and not put anything before Him (just as Y'shua taught).

I agree with many that the gospel of John and the letters attributed to Paul lead many astray with Greek philisophical mumbo-jumbo that cause the greatest of scholars to scratch their heads in wonder and amazement. Sifting through these words can be likened to an exercise in futility. My conclusion after many years of study is to take the tov teachings of Y'shua and use them as sagely teaching when seeking to do the will of the Eternal. This is what Thomas Jefferson ended up doing in the end as well.

In a nutshell: It doesn't matter which path you take as long as you get there. The religious Jewish people follow in the footsteps of Moses. Many people coming out of Christianity are following in the footsteps of Y'shua, who followed in the footsteps of Moses.

In the end we must decide for ourselves which is the most profitable and or easier path. I would proclaim without hesitation that the easiest way and the most solid foundation is to follow in the footsteps of Moses as the Jewish people have done, but also that there is great clarification and wisdom in the teachings of Y'shua who built upon/brought life to the words of Moses.

Allen

 

Mark 12:28  And one of the scribes coming near, hearing them reasoning together, knowing that he had answered them well, asked him, “Which is the first command of all?” 29 And Y’shua answered him, “The first of all the commands is, ‘Hear, O Israel, YHWH our Elohim, YHWH is one. 30 ‘And you shall love YHWH your Elohim with all your heart, and with all your being, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first command. 31 “And the second, like it, is this, ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’ There is no other command greater than these.” 32 And the scribe said to him, “Well said, teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one Elohim, and there is no other besides Him.

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Permalink Reply by Leo333 on January 3, 2012 at 2:35pm

Bread and wine are symbolic as in no more blood sacrifices. Much preparation of ones heart must be made to take this most Holy Eucharist. The preparation as such, as I may be so bold, is much in the Kosher fashion. Unfortunately many churches allow for this act to be done with store bought white bread and kool aid.

The colt was never ridden, a reference to virginity. He was not in competition for His Father's throne, because its His because He became the flesh which was crucified, He rebuked the disciple( away from me satan) who suggested He not be crucified. It was His cup which could not be passed. We know He existed. Ironically the Mosque, where the Temple should be, has in Arabic, that Jesus was born of a virgin but was only a prophet based on the crucifiction. Other Islam belief system deny the entire cruxifiction even happened. Another Mosque also at Jesus' birth place. Both buildings with 8 sides. Numeric value of Yeshua is 888. I could go on but wont. I do know the Torah to be true, I also know that Jesus did in fact walked this earth, there has never been no greater name and this "man" still influences people today. The 3 are not seperate, the mystery of the stations of the cross. We are also directed to pray in 3s see Benjamin. The moon is half the sun and its purpose is to reflect the light of the sun. And I do not try to convert, as who among us know the mind or intentions of G-d? It is why each walk is so different and personal. The most important thing is to believe in the ONE G-d of Israel.

Peace to all, just perspective as many very deep thoughts/revelations have come to me lately.

Leo 333 I do not believe that it is irony that when those who seem to get in bed with Islam, they find destruction, yet when Jew and Gentile work together, GREAT things are accomplished in His namesake...like the country we live in. But we have been invaded. We are to love our neighbor. The Sunni's beliefs are not the corrupt version of the Koran that many live by, that diminish the importance of women etc. Other sects kill Sunni's for their ways.

 And she sings.............sela

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Permalink Reply by Leo333 on January 3, 2012 at 2:58pm

One more thought, the gospels were RADICAL in their thinking, the powers that be did corrupt, I belief both Roman and the "Priests" of the day were quilty as sin. Roman(Pontus Pilate) mostly for his cowardice. Which is the virtue that from which all others are derived? Jesus was not denied entrance into the Temple. I say, the world is rioting! Calling ALL rebels!!! Even King David knew better than to put a servant down to his master.

Of faith, hope, and love, which of these is the greatest?  We all must seek Him with our whole heart. Revolution or Resurrection? He will hear the cries of HIS people. I pray for the conflicts/conflictions of every member of this community within their own hearts' finds peace. None of us are perfect and on my real bad days, I am pissed that I even believe in Him.

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Permalink Reply by Leo333 on January 3, 2012 at 3:30pm

Seriously, do we not see evil in the world, those spiritual forces that are the unseen? the armorment of G-d. He is a G-d of order and symmetry. I have met the devil, drank his beer for free (and it was all u could drink), then stole his song,.... oh the devil I assure u exists. I may not have defeated him, but I met that old red dragon.

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