Opinions on New Testament

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Garyth Richardson on March 19, 2010 at 3:48pm

Eric ,

Thanks indeed for your candour . Now Regarding Point 3 almah / bethulah : it is self evident that the Hebrew nation of old regarded ANY almah as a virgin de rigeur but this is not to say that ALL almahim were virgins in reality ( even more so today in our troubled age we have been born into ) The CORRECT term for virgin in Hebrew is BETHULAH ie B = Bayt / House/ Family : Theth / Wall / Partition / Enclosure: Lamed / Direction / Guidance / Pasture / Oasis : Hay / Look !! / Behold / This is it !! Do I need to add any more to make my case

Please kindly look up this Link and I await your response, www.messiahtruth.com/is714a.html

Kindly ,

Garyth

eric john nagel said:

I am sorry if I have caused confusion. My apologies.
1. yes
2. yes
3. cannot a young woman be a virgin?
4. correct

Garyth Richardson said:

Eric ,

Sorrry my Friend I am now quite confused,,,

I use the Masorti practice of attempting to reconcile / synthesize Science + Scripture :the 2 are not necessarily diametrically incompatible and this approach is well within the Jewish scholarly tradition

Now my understanding of your ' take ' 'is this...

1. You refer to Hebrew + Aramaic sources only

2. This implies you refer to the Hebrew Masoretic text

3. Isaiah 7: 14 accordingly uses almah to mean maiden / young woman NOT virgin !!

4, Barbara Thierring goes further to argue that Yeshua was actually born out of wedlock - but I guess that is another subject for discussion...

Blessings

Garyth


eric john nagel said:

I repeat, I go to the Hebrew or the Aramaic. I do not use Greek sources except for comparison. There are many good teachings out there arguing one way or another, I find trying to validate scripture a waste of time. I believe YHWH's word and He is my Rabbi. I have a lot to learn and truly enjoy discussing scripture to further that learning. ejn

Garyth Richardson said:

Thanks Eric,

Yes of course echad = singularity , one-ness , indivisible Elohim is the plural form for the simple reason that hebrew uses the plural form to denote SINGULARITY ( l' Chaim Lit, To LIVE'S = To LIFE !! )

Mmm , sorry my friend but I beg to differ on the so-called virgin birth and for a very simple reason...

You'll be aware that there are TWO written texts of the Miqra / Tanakh namely the Septuagint ( Greek ) and the Masoretic like most Christians you evidently accept the former as most authentic translation. Please therefore would you and any other of our Bretheren out there like to look at this Article regarding the almah / bethulah controversy pertaining to Isaiah 7: 14. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almah

Look forward to your response

Garyth



eric john nagel said:

Shalom Garyth,

I am not sure of what means "Singularity of YHWH"; however I believe I understand "YHWH echad". He is the only Elohim (pl).... (I cannot thus put Him in a box that is singular). Thus my excitement of the discourse that this forum is all about.

Yes, : 1. Translation and 2. Interpretation seem to be the main problems.... Interpretation in the sense of making a "doctrine or religion" of an aspect or part of scripture.........Individuals (us) should be able to agree on Torah. but not necessarily agree on "how to keep a command, etc" thus the individual's interpretation (understanding) may be different that another individual but as long as YHWH is the creator and His Torah is His teaching and instruction we should be able to agree to disagree.

As for the last item, "Do you believe in the ' virgin ' birth of Yeshua " Yes, I do. The testimony of that fits with Torah and all the other "miracle" births from the beginning. I see them as a prophetic picture of Yeshua's.

I pray my response helps understanding.
ejn

Permalink Reply by Garyth Richardson on March 19, 2010 at 4:03pm

Correction:

It's late in the day for me over here so my apologies for the inaccuracy of my transliteration of Hebrew..

Theth = Container /Receptacle / Moist / Fresh...

Forgive my error

Garyth


Garyth Richardson said:

Eric ,

Thanks indeed for your candour . Now Regarding Point 3 almah / bethulah : it is self evident that the Hebrew nation of old regarded ANY almah as a virgin de rigeur but this is not to say that ALL almahim were virgins in reality ( even more so today in our troubled age we have been born into ) The CORRECT term for virgin in Hebrew is BETHULAH ie B = Bayt / House/ Family : Theth / Wall / Partition / Enclosure: Lamed / Direction / Guidance / Pasture / Oasis : Hay / Look !! / Behold / This is it !! Do I need to add any more to make my case

Please kindly look up this Link and I await your response, www.messiahtruth.com/is714a.html

Kindly ,

Garyth

eric john nagel said:

I am sorry if I have caused confusion. My apologies.
1. yes
2. yes
3. cannot a young woman be a virgin?
4. correct

Garyth Richardson said:

Eric ,

Sorrry my Friend I am now quite confused,,,

I use the Masorti practice of attempting to reconcile / synthesize Science + Scripture :the 2 are not necessarily diametrically incompatible and this approach is well within the Jewish scholarly tradition

Now my understanding of your ' take ' 'is this...

1. You refer to Hebrew + Aramaic sources only

2. This implies you refer to the Hebrew Masoretic text

3. Isaiah 7: 14 accordingly uses almah to mean maiden / young woman NOT virgin !!

4, Barbara Thierring goes further to argue that Yeshua was actually born out of wedlock - but I guess that is another subject for discussion...

Blessings

Garyth


eric john nagel said:

I repeat, I go to the Hebrew or the Aramaic. I do not use Greek sources except for comparison. There are many good teachings out there arguing one way or another, I find trying to validate scripture a waste of time. I believe YHWH's word and He is my Rabbi. I have a lot to learn and truly enjoy discussing scripture to further that learning. ejn

Garyth Richardson said:

Thanks Eric,

Yes of course echad = singularity , one-ness , indivisible Elohim is the plural form for the simple reason that hebrew uses the plural form to denote SINGULARITY ( l' Chaim Lit, To LIVE'S = To LIFE !! )

Mmm , sorry my friend but I beg to differ on the so-called virgin birth and for a very simple reason...

You'll be aware that there are TWO written texts of the Miqra / Tanakh namely the Septuagint ( Greek ) and the Masoretic like most Christians you evidently accept the former as most authentic translation. Please therefore would you and any other of our Bretheren out there like to look at this Article regarding the almah / bethulah controversy pertaining to Isaiah 7: 14. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almah

Look forward to your response

Garyth



eric john nagel said:

Shalom Garyth,

I am not sure of what means "Singularity of YHWH"; however I believe I understand "YHWH echad". He is the only Elohim (pl).... (I cannot thus put Him in a box that is singular). Thus my excitement of the discourse that this forum is all about.

Yes, : 1. Translation and 2. Interpretation seem to be the main problems.... Interpretation in the sense of making a "doctrine or religion" of an aspect or part of scripture.........Individuals (us) should be able to agree on Torah. but not necessarily agree on "how to keep a command, etc" thus the individual's interpretation (understanding) may be different that another individual but as long as YHWH is the creator and His Torah is His teaching and instruction we should be able to agree to disagree.

As for the last item, "Do you believe in the ' virgin ' birth of Yeshua " Yes, I do. The testimony of that fits with Torah and all the other "miracle" births from the beginning. I see them as a prophetic picture of Yeshua's.

I pray my response helps understanding.
ejn

Permalink Reply by eric john nagel on March 19, 2010 at 8:40pm

Shabbat Shalom Garyth,
I was just writing the same, it is late and it has been a long week. Thanks be to YHWH for Shabbat.
I was also writing to thank you for all your links to studies. I do want to clear up one thing. I am not anything that the last Link mentions in the intro....ie a christian apologist or a missionary. I am only a voice in this wilderness crying TESHUVAH! My wilderness is a christian school where I try my very best to teach teshuvah, and Torah by example. I only want to help anyone come to know the Elohim of Avraham, Yitzchak, and Yaakov-- The Creator of all things, YHWH---without the baggage of religiousity = takenot and maasim.
I, frankly have lost where the discussion of Yeshua's birth was heading.

Shalom U'Vrachot,
ejn
ovadyah teshuvah

Permalink Reply by ronald wayne copeland on March 20, 2010 at 8:26am

Blessings Miss Tamia Boone
Here's another to ponder give no thought to what you wear or eat? Isn't the whole point to watch how certain things are done. It's hard for me to put into words what I want to say. G-ds ways not are own thoughts about how we would live. I know the scripture is about trusting for every need but we also know that some things can lead us away from G-d. The don't worry about what you eat nullify the restrictions on diet. And the G-d so clothed the grass of the field ye of litle faith. How is it possible to ignore modesty. which is a like virtue as is faith. Subtle differences. What's your back ground you have a lot going for you
Many Blessings Bro Ron
Tamla Boone said:

At this point, I believe Yeshua could have been A messiah-one of many. Yesterday, I said outloud for the first time, I don't believe he is God. But if the NT is correct and did come as a messenger, as an anointed one, to point us back to God...
1. Why did he make very confusing statements like:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.
Mar 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
Mar 9:39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
Mar 9:42 ¶ And whosoever shall offend one of [these] little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Mar 14:22 ¶ And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake [it], and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
Mar 14:23 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave [it] to them: and they all drank of it.
Mar 14:24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
2. Why did he allow people to worship him?
3. Why as the woman with the issue of blood out in public. Shouldn't she have been shut up as she was unclean?
4. If Jesus was a priest, High priest, why did Jesus keep going around dead people. There are prohibitions against that in law. We never heard of him being cleansed by ashes of red heifer in any of gospels.
5. Did anyone cast out devils in OT?
I hope you guys don't try to eat me for lunch. I really want to hear valid answers to these questions. My greatest fear is that I have answered myself, as I wrote this email. I have loved Jesus for years. Really, I still do. I want to believe in him, but the scriptures just doesn't add up. I can't continue a lifestyle of lies.

Permalink Reply by Tamla Boone on March 22, 2010 at 10:38am

Hey Melissa,
This is interesting. Would clear up a lot, can you give scriptural back-up? Also reference, where it relates casting out devils and binding and loosing.

Melissa said:

casting out devils, binding and loosing its not what you think. To bind is to declare unlawful, to loose is to say its lawful.

Permalink Reply by Tamla Boone on March 22, 2010 at 11:02am

Melissa,
I disagree so many scriptures tell us not to have anything to do with idolators. That is what Christians are they have set up Jesus as a spiritual god. The father tells us not to have anything to to with those people. Hence all the laws about intermarriage with heathens.

Psa 1:1 ¶ Blessed [is] the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

1Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Exd 23:13 And in all [things] that I have said unto you be circumspect: and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth.

You cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord, and the table of demons. Now do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He?” (I Cor. 10:20-22).

As I have experienced, Christians are so brainwashed, no one will listen. I think if you know your own stance, and share in you circle your beliefs, people may approach you. But unless God draws them to the truth, they won't listen. There is no need to participate in a system created by lies. To me it's adultery to the One True God. I don't think we should play church in order to think we will save Christians. I think you put yourself in danger of angering the Father.

Permalink Reply by Tamla Boone on March 22, 2010 at 1:21pm

Woe, woe, woe where is the attack coming from. I was talking about myself. Calm down. This is how I feel when I go to church. I still have plenty of Christian friends. I haven't figured out how to respond. I started with scripture-that is God's opinion. You can't argue with that...the rest is my opinion, my experience.

Permalink Reply by Tamla Boone on March 22, 2010 at 1:38pm

Melissa said:

No one is attacking you at all, I completely disagree with you. Its not ours to judge who is clean and who is not. EVERYTHING is not a lie. You all are going completely the opposite direction.

I am not talking about people, I am talking about their actions of worshiping a man. Who is you all?

Permalink Reply by Tamla Boone on March 22, 2010 at 1:40pm

Melissa said:

bottom line, do you know the intent of anyone's heart or what is going on. Its between them and YHVH, we are to tell everyone the truth and let it be. Trust me, they will leave you.
My Father is not angry with me at all. I never said he was. I am secure and dwells safely with him, hiding in the shadow of his wings. There are things Yahshua is saying, that line up with the OT, he wasn't lying, he is our Brother, and I would be very leery of denying our brother or any group that does such. Clearly, by my experience recently and the topic of Benyamin, they know what is going on.

Who and what are you talking about. We can't hold a discussion when you talk in code.

Permalink Reply by Tamla Boone on March 22, 2010 at 6:18pm

Dear Melissa,
Thank you so much for the concern for my family. That is really sweet of you. My prayer and intent is that my continue to study the word of God. I pray that the Father would continue to bless us with knowledge and wisdom about him and who he is and is not. Please be assured that we are not getting off into anything, but "God's Word".

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• …
• 5
• 6
• 7
• Next ›
• Page