The Gabriel Revelation Stone

I was watching an interesting show on National Geographic last night. The show was profiling an ancient stone that was found and had Hebrew script on it. Much of it was readable except for line 80, one of the most important parts. Isn't that the case lots! Anyway, it was a story about a man called the prince of princess named Simon that was a slave and challenged the current Roman goverment and was killed for it. This event took place four years before Jesus. The stone is supposed to tell the story of the Archangel of God,Gabriel, telling this man,in Hebrew, on the third day to live. Calling Simon out of the grave after three days. The word "live" is the word in question. It has been erroded from the stone and many tests have been done and cannot bring up any impressions of where the word was or brings up partial impressions of a word. Many Jewish scholars disagree with one Jewish scholar whose name I cannot spell. This scholar says that if he can prove that this stone says "live" that the idea of being a martyr was common in Jesus day and that Jesus may have felt like he had to do this to live out the will of God but he wanted to do this in a much bigger way than Simon and crucifixtion would accomphlish this. In other words,Jesus orchestrated his death.Most scholars disagree with the other man. Ok, Folks. What do you know on this subject? No offense but please do not bore me to death with pages of theology that I can't connect the dots. Relevance is the key word here.

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Permalink Reply by Gina on November 22, 2009 at 6:41pm

Hez,
You said "I really doubt the idea of a resurrected messiah was that widely spread since what is on the stone reads more like Midrash than any halachic opinion,plus the fact that it is only mentioned once in the Talmud." Could you explain this sentence to me and please tell me what a "Midrash" is? It sounds like you don't believe the story in this sentence but later seem to agree that the story is real. Good Job! You recounted exactly what the story was all about but as I had told you once before that I understand things that I cannot verbalize. Plus I do not know the Hebrew language enough to recount this story as you have but I did understand when this story was being told about the differences in certain words. Awww...I had a feeling you would know.

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Permalink Reply by Gina on November 24, 2009 at 6:29pm

Are you referring to a Revelation of some sort. I have a few more questions but I've been cooking too much to re-read and will do so after Thanksgiving Day. Do ya'll celebrate Thanksgiving? It's not a religious holiday so I thought ya'll might.

Hezakiah Levinson said:

Gina said:
Hez,
You said "I really doubt the idea of a resurrected messiah was that widely spread since what is on the stone reads more like Midrash than any halachic opinion,plus the fact that it is only mentioned once in the Talmud." Could you explain this sentence to me and please tell me what a "Midrash" is? It sounds like you don't believe the story in this sentence but later seem to agree that the story is real. Good Job! You recounted exactly what the story was all about but as I had told you once before that I understand things that I cannot verbalize. Plus I do not know the Hebrew language enough to recount this story as you have but I did understand when this story was being told about the differences in certain words. Awww...I had a feeling you would know.

I'm going to have to hire you as my secretary and day planner LOL. I did it again.

Midrash are non binding stories that have a point to them or a moral.A good example is the one where Egypt is being tried before the Heavenly Court as they pursue Israel across Yom Soof (Red Sea: common translation) on whether God should destroy them or not.The guardian angel of Egypt says," Are they not Your children as well?" to sway God's decree and then the prosecuting angel presents a building brick containing the body of a Jewish male child as evidence against, which is why Hashem then drowned the Egyptians.So here you have an obviously non biblical story whose purpose is to show 1) the cruelty of the slavery in Egypt and 2) God's justice in weighing the facts of existence.

It is not that I disbelieve the stone exists or the story on it, as per being a type of midrash. I do express my doubts on the article's author that the concept of THE Messiah dying and coming back is at all refected in it since it identifies the protagonist as ben Yosef(Ephraim),not ben Dovid (Judah). I also doubt that the concept of a dying messiah figure that is ben Dovid was a widely held concept because of the lack of any references in other Judaic writings.

There IS the concept of a moshiach ben Yosef (Ephraim), who is a warrior leader that is killed in the final battle that resurrects when Moshiah ben Dovid comes afterwards.
I know the following may be a bit confusing on the explanation,but the gist of it will be easy to spot.I don't want to go into quoting sources since you wanted plain English :)

Let me summarize what appears in the Rabbinic writings and then give the sources (for those who know enough Hebrew to look them up).Mind you that this is all Midrashic and though some points ARE agreed on,it still remains unbinding concepts.

There will be a period of about seven years of terrible famines and other troubles. The land of Israel will at that
time be under non-Jewish control, and a leader of the tribe of Ephraim (the Zohar Chadash says specifically a descendant of Yeravoam Ben Navat), will arise to lead militarily against those nations who control Jerusalem.

He will be successful, but after his initial victory he will die IN BATTLE. This will cause a great mourning and many will lose faith. At that time (still within the seven years) the Mashiach Ben David will be revealed, he shall finish the battle. After which, he will resurrect all the dead, starting with the Mashiach Ben Yosef.

Both of them will go up to Mount Zion to fulfill the prophesy in Ovadiah verse 21: "And the saviors (plural - both Messiahs) shall go up onto Mount Tzion and judge Mount Esav, and the kingdom will be for Hashem." From this, we see clearly that the time when the Mashiach ben Yosef comes ends with a period of peace.

There is the fulfillment of ALL the major prophesies like an end to war and a world at peace with the Jewish people
in a restored Jerusalem with the Third Temple.

The Rabbinic sources are: Pesikta Zetrusa (Parshas Balak); Midrashim on Mashiach from the Otzar HaMidrashim (OH) pages 390-395; Sefer Zerubabal OH page 160; Rabbenu Saadia Gaon in Emunah VaDeos book 8 from chapter 5; Responsa from Rabbenu Hai Goan OH page 387. (There are other references in the Talmud and the Zohar, but in these places that I cited they bring together all the points in one place.)

The following points are agreed to in all the Midrashim that deal with the Mashiach ben Yosef and the Mashiach ben Dovid:

1.) They are two different people from two different tribal families.

2.) They live at the same time.

3.) Mashiach ben Yosef never takes the throne nor is he entitled to it.

4.) Mashiach ben Yosef is a warrior (Mashiach ben Dovid would also
appear to be but I am not sure if this is 100%; he may just be the leader.)

5.) Mashiach ben Yosef will be killed in BATTLE and will be the first
to be raised from the dead by Mashiach ben Dovid.

6.) The period of time from when Mashiach ben Yosef first comes into
prominence until he is resurrected after the Mashiach ben Dovid comes
to his throne is very short, the longest period is under two years.

7.) The basic chronology of events is that there is a seven year period.
It starts with continual problems, it starts to improve and then in the
sixth year it gets worse again.

In the seventh year there are great wars in which the Mashiach ben
Yosef is first successful and then he is killed in that later part of the
year. Many Jewish people will become depressed and fall away.

At the end of the seven years, Mashiach ben Dovid comes and finishes the job and there comes the resurrection of the dead.
In additions to the sources previously mentioned I can bring the following partial sources: Succah 52a, Sanhedrin 97a, Midrash Shir HaShirim 2:14, Derech Eretz Zuta 10, plus a few more.