A Prayer to Our Father

Comment

Comment by Gina on November 7, 2009 at 9:37am

That Youtube was pretty cool. I put it on my Facebook wall. Very beautiful.

Comment by James Daniel Tabor on November 5, 2009 at 8:55am

This is so great Keith! I hope it goes viral on the Internet!

Comment by Sherry Cole on November 5, 2009 at 8:25am

Awesome Keith! Thank you sooooo much for including the separated text while reciting in Hebrew. It is really helpful in learning to pronounce the words. I think this will be my first prayer in Hebrew to memorize.
Blessings,
Sherry

Comment by Keith Johnson on November 5, 2009 at 8:00am

Hey everybody check out this youtube video on the Hebrew version of the lord's Prayer!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jC1EHjnEJs

Comment by James Daniel Tabor on October 22, 2009 at 1:14pm

I had lunch with Keith Johnson today and I am encouraging him to join us on the SWW. I know Nehemia Gordon is already on but so far I think he has been so busy he has not had time to post so much. However, it might be that Keith can have a more regular presence here and I know you would all enjoy and benefit from his association, and particularly in this group, as co-author of the book under discussion!

Comment by James Daniel Tabor on July 29, 2009 at 7:03am

Here is a more direct link for the NPR radio interview that Nehemia Gordon, Keith Johnson, and I did here in Charlotte last week with host Mike Collins on his show "Charlotte Talks." If you have not yet heard it I think you will find it well worthwhile. Circulate as you wish:

http://www.wfae.org/wfae/18_93_0.cfm?do=detail&id=10404

Comment by James Daniel Tabor on July 28, 2009 at 7:54am

I wanted to explain to those who are new here that in this Group, that is focused on "A Prayer to our Father," both the book and the topic, there are two sections--Comments and Discussions. The post I just wrote on forgiveness I put in both, because I think lots of people are not used to the two features yet. The idea is that anyone can come and leave a comment on any aspect of the Group's focus, even personal greetings are fine--but in terms of getting more into topical discussions on the Prayer or the book, you can either begin or participate in one of the topical discussions. Dave Cole began one a week or so ago and I just began a second on on Forgiveness. I just wanted to explain the double posting and as people get used to this you will see how nicely it works. This way you don't have to work through all the comments to get at a specific topic. So, if any of you have things to add to my "forgiveness" post below, you are welcome to comment here, but even better--go to the Discussion I began above and put it there, so we can all see it easily and jump in if we want.

Comment by James Daniel Tabor on July 28, 2009 at 7:29am

The "Lord's Prayer" is found in two versions in the N.T., one in Matthew 6:9-13, the other in Luke 11:2-5. The one most familiar to people is in Matthew, and many have the KJV translation in their heads, or even memorized word for word. It is most instructive to compare the two versions side by side, they are quite different, and scholars are convinced that it is Luke who represents the more original, primitive version of the prayer, while Matthew offers a more "liturgical" expansion. Luke seems "stripped down" and has a more "staccato" feel to it when you read it aloud. There are also quite a few textual variants, meaning there are Greek manuscripts that differ here and their in their readings. The best know of these if of course the famous "Doxology" that is included in the KJV/Byzantine ms. "For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, forever and ever, Amen," but is considered almost universally to be a later addition.

These two sections of Matthew (chap 6) and Luke (chap 11) are also part of what scholars call the Q source, which was an independent document, a pre-gospel "gospel," which included a collection of the sayings/teachings of Jesus. Many scholars, for this reason, are willing to consider the "Lord's Prayer," at least in Luke's version, as authentically from Jesus himself.

There is lots to note in the two versions of the prayer, as well as looking at the variants.

The prayer itself consists of five petitions. I wanted to offer some comments here on the 4th--the one about "forgiveness," which interestingly enough is the petition that Jesus also elaborates in Matthew 6:14-15 (if you forgive others, the Father will forgive you; if not He will not)

The most obvious difference in this petition in Matthew and Luke is that Matthew has "forgive us our debts" while Luke has "forgive us our sins." This sounds like a huge difference in English but in Greek, Luke goes on to say, "as we forgive those indebted to us"--so his focus is also primarily on the image of "debt." Also, the verb in each case means "forgive" in the sense of lift, take off, remove, and even today we talk of a bank or even a lender "forgiving a debt." The word "sin" in English can be quite misleading, at least in the connotations it carries. It means in Greek, "to miss the mark," or to put it more in this context--to obligate oneself by a failing or falling short. Also, in Matthew 6:14-15, when Jesus expands on the forgiveness petition, he does in fact use the word translated "trespass," which means to step over the line.

Hebrew Matthew is a great help here since the clear meaning of the Hebrew terms (as explained in the Gordon/Johnson book) is that of forgiving debt, so that "failures," call them sins or stepping over the lines, create "obligations," on "indebtedness." In other words, there are consequences that have to be dealt with or "paid."

This means the common idea of guilt and punishment being the focus--i.e., let us off the hook so we won't be responsible, is simply incorrect. The focus of this petition is the notion that our failings with others, and with God, create "debt" that obligates us consequentially. That debt can be "lifted" by God, as we "lift" the debt in which others are held by us through their failings. It means giving us/them a clean slate, a new start--just as one would feel if some enormous obligation of "debt" were suddenly removed!

I hope Nehemia might jump in here, or others as this is truly an important and amazing concept that could bear further discussion and clarification...

Comment by Felicita Cardona-Vega on July 27, 2009 at 9:35pm

Great Job with the book. There is so much more that I want to learn as far as prayers and worshipping is concern; that maybe you can help us.
Shalom

Comment by Pat/Avigail Robbins on July 27, 2009 at 8:47pm

Nehemiah, I'm so glad to see you here at SWW. Have been reading your books for some time now and am loving your latest, A PRAYER TO OUR FATHER. I have always considered the Avinu Prayer a very Jewish prayer and greatly appreciate your and Keith's work in bringing this fact to light.

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• Next ›
• Page